Author Topic: trying to fine tune Daniel  (Read 2408 times)

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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trying to fine tune Daniel
« on: August 26, 2019, 10:04:56 AM »
+1
Copied from another post, trying to resurrect to get some advice on it.  Cov with death and coliseum work really well with this, but stop bel's banquet and bab seige army/bab merchants, so wondering if those cards are worth it, even though they are super good.  Looking for more ways to get TFA out faster (only other thing I can think of is I Am Creator, but don't like it only works 1st turn basically and isn't Daniel).  Any other good Daniel cards that are worth a slot?  Any advice is welcome

* also don't actually have awake LS yet, if you have one to trade, check out my trade threadhttp://www.cactusforums.com/redemption-market/sepjazzwarrior-trading-post-have-poc2-3w-and-fa/ *

Cards with a * next to it are non-Daniel, everything else is.  25 0ut of 50 cards in deck are non-Daniel, 13 of them are doms and LS's, 12 are not

Doms:
SoG*
TSC*
Angel*
3W*
CM*
FA (womens)*
Mayhem*

LS:
Cov Breakers
Exiles*
Wanderer*
Covet*
Hunter*
Prosperity *
Remnant*

neutral/forts:
Darius decree
Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin
Eternal Judgement
Fiery Furnace
Storehouse*
Endless treasure*
Majestic heavens*
5th seal/justice seekers*
Ends*

Heroes:
Daniel (LR)
Shadrach
Meshach
Abednego
The Foretelling Angel
Michael
Gabriel
Daniel's Guardian
Servant's by the River

GE:
the coming prince
WWW*
Angelic guidance *
Faith *
Love righteousness*
Consider the lillies*

EC:
King Belshazzar
Nebuchadnezzar
Lions
The Winged Lion (tin version)
Babylonian soldiers
Conjurers
Astrologers
deceiver*

EE:
Head of Gold
Nebby's Dream
Bel's banquet
wages of sin*

reserve:
Undefiled
Stone cut without hands
I Am Creator*
Flying scroll*
Cov with death *
Seized by Babylon *
Scattered*
bab seige army *
Bab merchants*
Women with child*
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 04:06:50 PM by sepjazzwarrior »

Offline The Guardian

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 11:15:18 AM »
0
I would highly recommend the Hunter/Exiles/I am Creator package for getting TFA out quickly. You could even include Awake LS since you won't be using a ton of draw abilities (turn 1 Awake can tutor Hunter to get to Exiles, or generate a LS to rescue if you draw it later and you're already set up).
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 11:53:29 AM »
0
That sounds great and would be a good LS package...if I had them.  don't have awake or exiles, but totally agree that would be the way to go if I had them

on a side note, does awake work with imitate LS?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 12:04:56 PM by sepjazzwarrior »

Offline goalieking87

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 05:18:49 PM »
+1
You could even include Awake LS since you won't be using a ton of draw abilities (turn 1 Awake can tutor Hunter to get to Exiles, or generate a LS to rescue if you draw it later and you're already set up).

That...or Awake can just go straight to Exiles. 8)

on a side note, does awake work with imitate LS?

Yes

Offline Gabe

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 06:06:34 PM »
+1
You could even include Awake LS since you won't be using a ton of draw abilities (turn 1 Awake can tutor Hunter to get to Exiles, or generate a LS to rescue if you draw it later and you're already set up).

That...or Awake can just go straight to Exiles. 8)

 :rollin:

Justin must be play testing a new Lost Soul that let's you draw 1 every time a Lost Soul is put in play.  ::) ;)
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Offline goalieking87

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2019, 06:08:14 PM »
+4
No, he’s just trying to get people to trigger his Babylonian Merchants as many times as possible before they remember it’s sitting in his territory.  :o

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2019, 07:32:24 AM »
0
My problem with the Daniel deck is that it depends on The Foretelling Angel so heavily for its “speed”.. otherwise we’re incorporating defensive or neutral non Daniel methods of accessing offense it seems like.. which brings us back to the whole reason we’re playing all Daniel which is solely to high roll with TFA which is arguably a problem card if so much is hinging on it

What is some way there could be less dependence on the foretelling angel? There are so many ways to take it especially if you put your best foot forward (typically)

Anyone else feel this way when playing a Daniel deck? Seems like it can high roll but is way less consistent than some other more well rounded offenses like clay and flood survivors throne judges etc

On the other hand the Daniel bands and offense can be very strong and difficult to block without the cbn against band enh.. so maybe it is balanced in that sense to its power? Good discussion.

Relatively speaking assuming there is no rotation it could have more consistency in my opinion

Offline goalieking87

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2019, 10:27:00 AM »
+1
Once set up, the Daniel contingent is very hard to fully shut down.

I agree that the biggest challenge of the deck is getting set up quickly.  Even if you get out TFA, the odds still seem too great that the top card of deck is non-Daniel, which makes it less consistent than Music Leader, Noah, etc who get exactly what they want when triggered.  If that problem can be solved, then the Daniel theme would be amazing.

A secondary challenge is that if opponent is able to get rid of TFA, it is much harder to get angels back than humans. Obviously, WWW can get him back if you have it in your hand, but I don’t see any other ways in this construct. However, it is notable that TFA doesn’t need to get through your entire deck. Once you get enough Daniel Heroes, the rest should take care of itself.

At a first glance, Meshach banded to Daniel banded to Servants by the River is enough to stop many blocks. Shadrach makes it better if you have him to put up front for the cbi banding.

So...if SOMEONE was to work on a card creation for winning an event at Nats, I would say look at the possibility of making a Daniel artifact (or Covenant would be better) that provides a little back up to top card not being Daniel (maybe similar to The Sea of Glass option) that either provides some Daniel character territory protection or gets a Daniel card from discard (probably with a reasonable cost).  Such a card might be able to incorporate two of these things, but probably not all three.

Offline MMHobbitWW

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2019, 11:24:02 AM »
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I'd be tempted to splash in Love at First Sight and Words of Encouragement. Sometimes they would slow down the machine but it's not bad to have speed options after you are set up or draw into TFA.
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Offline Red Wing

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2019, 11:35:01 AM »
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Endless Treasures would also help with consistency and pulling out CwD.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 01:45:26 PM »
0
The topdeck part of Manna is optional... ::)

Spoiler (hover to show)
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Offline goalieking87

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 02:19:01 PM »
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The topdeck part of Manna is optional... ::)

Spoiler (hover to show)


Cool, could be a good Reserve option to grab instead of I am Creator with Exiles if you already have Heroes in territory.

Offline Sean

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2019, 02:54:50 PM »
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I think Elijah (PoC) and Moses (CoW) are better options than Gabriel and Michael (unless I'm missing something) because you never use Gabe or Mike once you have the Daniel humans out.  None of the Daniel humans are hurt by Moses.  Both Elijah and Moses can play WWW and Elijah can use your star Enhancements too.  Transfiguration is an easy add for Faith or Faith of Moses' Parents.  I'm not sure how Transfiguration works with Coliseum though so maybe that's bad.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2019, 04:18:15 PM »
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I think Elijah (PoC) and Moses (CoW) are better options than Gabriel and Michael (unless I'm missing something) because you never use Gabe or Mike once you have the Daniel humans out.  None of the Daniel humans are hurt by Moses.  Both Elijah and Moses can play WWW and Elijah can use your star Enhancements too.  Transfiguration is an easy add for Faith or Faith of Moses' Parents.  I'm not sure how Transfiguration works with Coliseum though so maybe that's bad.

Moses (CoW) would prevent WWW.

Moses and Elijah are also not Daniel cards so they would inherently slow the deck down. I've seen an early Gabriel basically win games just by hitting a couple of key EE (i.e. Scattered) from the opponents deck not to mention the fact that you can use him to discard stuff from your own deck in order to shuffle it when your top card isn't a Daniel card. I do think it might be worth using at least one powerful GE that Michael can use (perhaps Death of Firstborn, Striking Herod or Protection of Angels).
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2019, 10:30:33 AM »
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Are there any non daniel cards that could be taken out? Is colisuem worth the slot?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2019, 10:39:07 AM »
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I think Coliseum could be cut. Darius' Decree is not the staple it used to be, but it is a Daniel card and it does disrupt the opponent in a CwD-like fashion. Since GWT is only needed to get out TFA and Charms is activated on a magician, your Art slot can then be dedicated to CwD & Decree.

Cutting Coliseum would also allow you to throw Uzzah in Reserve which can get value from GWT after you've gotten TFA out.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2019, 09:24:13 PM »
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Coincidentally i took out DD for coliseum...what would i take out for uzzah? Bab merchants? What would i cut if i could put in I Am Creator? Im having a hard time cutting cards from there

Offline goalieking87

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2019, 08:52:56 AM »
+1
I have found Stone Cut without Hands to be an underwhelming Daniel card. Especially since the Daniel band is the got-to, but even in general, you don’t want the opponent to be able to play an evil enhancement that is going to work. Maybe if Stone interrupted the battle it would be worthwhile, but I don’t think it is.

I am also curious how DOU has been working for you? You have a few ECs who can play it, and one of which who can get it from Reserve. You can also get it with Storehouse, but not sure at what point it is the card you would be going to, especially since you have to show it to opponent and then they know what you want to do during your block. Lastly, and more importantly, Lost Souls are a big reason that TFA gets stalled, so I am not sure I would be very motivated to shuffle them back into my deck.


Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2019, 09:39:05 AM »
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Stone cut without hand (and unbowed) are there for Abed-nego to top deck, they never get played, just like cast into lions den.  I could probably just have one of those in reserve and cut the others, giving me a spot in deck and reserve.

DoU gets used sometimes, mostly it just gets angel played on conjurors, I could see taking it out as well, but the defense lacks so much power and DoU can get me a turn or 2 of stall sometimes, its hard to cut.   

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2019, 10:23:12 AM »
+1
I included Moses' Parents in a Daniel deck I built while ago. I didn't test it much at all, but it did seem like a worthwhile non-Daniel card since all the humans are Cloud and you can pull them out with Faith.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2019, 10:29:56 AM »
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I was thinking about putting him in reserve, but one of the Daniel guys already prevents the first non-Daniel enhancement they play, so I thought that was similar enough to moses parents ability to not warrant them

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2019, 08:07:00 AM »
+1
Updates, decided to go all in on coliseum as it stop all the CBN shuffle all heroes in battle cards like scattered and reap the whirlwind that absolutely kill this offense, so far it has worked in testing but still not set on it

Would it be worth it to add covet and wanderer to try and get opponents exile LS? Taking out imitate and lawless.  I lose LS get but gain a few more ways to get I Am Creator early
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 08:38:09 AM by sepjazzwarrior »

kariusvega

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2019, 11:24:52 AM »
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Updates, decided to go all in on coliseum as it stop all the CBN shuffle all heroes in battle cards like scattered and reap the whirlwind that absolutely kill this offense, so far it has worked in testing but still not set on it

Would it be worth it to add covet and wanderer to try and get opponents exile LS? Taking out imitate and lawless.  I lose LS get but gain a few more ways to get I Am Creator early

Coliseum and moses parents in here are very wise! Jayden makes a great point about them and faith! Very good!

Offline Asahel24601

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2019, 11:51:51 AM »
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Updates, decided to go all in on coliseum as it stop all the CBN shuffle all heroes in battle cards like scattered and reap the whirlwind that absolutely kill this offense, so far it has worked in testing but still not set on it

Would it be worth it to add covet and wanderer to try and get opponents exile LS? Taking out imitate and lawless.  I lose LS get but gain a few more ways to get I Am Creator early
Covet is generally a powerful card, and can also grab powerful souls later in the game (Like a Remnant or Dull). I'd recommend it, but I'm less sure of Wanderer. It gets you the card for that turn, but it can just come back if you can't rescue it.

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: trying to fine tune Daniel
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2019, 11:42:36 AM »
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just realized Daniel negates coliseum, so will just have to deal with scattered.  took it out for stone cut without hands as a placeholder for now.  What good options are there for soul gen with this?  What should I cut out for uzzah in reserve?