Author Topic: How to win in one turn – Without making a single successful rescue attempt!*  (Read 7958 times)

Offline The Guardian

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What year was the hand limit implemented?

I don't recall offhand, I'd have to go back and do some research of old posts.

Where is the max hand size noted?  I couldn't find it in the REG. 

In the REG glossary under "Hand"

Quote
Hand
A player’s hand is where a player holds all the cards that are not in their deck, Reserve,
discard pile or banish pile but have not been played. Players put cards from their hand on the
table to play them. By the end of each of their Discard Phases, a player must reduce their
hand size to a maximum of 8 cards, unless modified by a Change Hand Size effect.

At no time may the cards in a player’s hand exceed 16. This rule takes precedence over any
instruction on cards. If a card is played that instructs a player to draw cards or otherwise put
cards in their hand, they must stop at 16 regardless of the number of cards to be drawn or
returned; additional cards over 16 are protected from being put in their hand by any means.

All abilities that target hand have an implied reveal effect, where if the holder of the targeted
hand cannot complete an action required by another ability or game rule, they must reveal
that hand. For example, if a card requires a player to underdeck two good cards from hand,
they must reveal their hand if they can underdeck zero or only one. If they can underdeck
both and satisfy the requirement, there is no reveal.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Ironisaac

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Haha, this deck is hilarious! I really hope to see some people playing this in the future!

Now the question is...will we see any combo decks at this year's T2 Only???  :maul:

I may or may not have a fun one I've been cooking up for a year... I just hope I can make it to t2 only!
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Offline Sean

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Isn't there a generic hero that can become a Disciple?

EDIT: Nevermind, I was thinking of Faithful/Watchful Leaders.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 07:18:37 PM by Sean »
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Offline Reth

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+1
Why no Burial Shroud in Deck or maybe Reserve to buy some time or serving as target for 3 Woes?

Offline Kor

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Why no Burial Shroud in Deck or maybe Reserve to buy some time or serving as target for 3 Woes?

It isn't a bad idea, but there are a few reasons.  Three Woes/Censer/Image/captured ark all tend to negate it and make it not a solid block.  Also, most of the time I like having either Four Drachma Coin or The Great White Throne active in the artifact slot to get through my deck faster.
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Offline Asahel24601

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+1
On a similar note to Burial Shroud, would Mourn and Weap be worth running in a similar vein? It's more vulnerable to the Gam's speech class of card, but it'll work as a stall in the same vein as Shroud and not take up an artifact slot.

Offline Kor

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On a similar note to Burial Shroud, would Mourn and Weap be worth running in a similar vein? It's more vulnerable to the Gam's speech class of card, but it'll work as a stall in the same vein as Shroud and not take up an artifact slot.

Yeah Mourn and Weep I would definitely like to see find a place in the deck.  This list was made prior to the release of PoC.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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What year was the hand limit implemented?
Announced Aug 2009, to take effect January 2010.

Quote
Maximum hand size was put in place to nerf a combo deck that had never won anything. Errata'ing combos out of existence is not a Redemption travesty it is a Redemption tradition.

Maximum hand size was put in place to make "solitaire" combo decks in general less feasible, some of which had certainly proven successful, such as the Sin in the Camp deck that Clift created and Gabe used to win Nationals. It was not put in place to nerf one specific combo.
Sin in the Camp was errata'ed to be one per territory late 2009/early 2010.  Not sure why that would have been necessary if the hand limit was the corrective.

Here is someone from back then who explains the purpose...

I like all of the ideas presented by Rob a lot except the hand limit. I agree with RDT that 16 might be a bit on the low side. However, perhaps a good compromise would be to leave it at 16, but the one time you can go over is during your draw phase. I believe for consistency's sake, we don't say that a player with 14 cards in hand (from drawing on his previous block) can only draw two during his next draw phase. This eliminates the huge drawing combos, but doesn't complicate the draw phase.

The hand size limit was put in place specifically to nerf all draw-based combo decks, regardless of whether they had ever one anything.

Offline Master Q

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+2
Even with the T2-only looming, you didn't wait to bust this open. That's class! 8)

I think the Storehouses will hurt you more than help. If a loaded one is Shipwrecked you're kind of out of luck, right?

What if the opponent gets an early Priest of Zeus? Or Babylonian Merchants? I'm not seeing anything around those.

Eternal Covenant is probably better than Raising Lazarus.

No Herod's Temple?
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Offline Kor

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Even with the T2-only looming, you didn't wait to bust this open. That's class! 8)

I think the Storehouses will hurt you more than help. If a loaded one is Shipwrecked you're kind of out of luck, right?

What if the opponent gets an early Priest of Zeus? Or Babylonian Merchants? I'm not seeing anything around those.

Eternal Covenant is probably better than Raising Lazarus.

No Herod's Temple?

Storehouse is mainly there to be searched out by Seven years of Plenty (removes card from deck) and then allow The Dreaming Pharaoh to draw.  I would never put combo pieces in, only defensive enhancements I would have to discard anyways.

Priest of Zeus/Merchants definitely are extremely problematic cards.  Best solution I can think of is to either put AoTL back in or use Ark of Salvation (also can be searched out by SYoP).

I agree raising lazarus is probably one of the worst cards in the deck, eternal covenant would probably be better.  Either way, probably best left in reserve and replaced with Covenant of Prayer in the main deck.

Herod's Temple might be worth trying out.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 08:45:17 PM by Kor »
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Offline Reth

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Forgot to mention: Cool idea and nice combo!  :) :thumbup: I like combos BTW.

Offline Josh

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In response to Bab Merchants capturing your combo pieces - A New Covenant can be spammed to bring back captured NT heroes.  It was crazy popular back in 2010 when Disciples decks were everywhere.
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Offline Sean

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Have you considered using Gates of Samaria to decrease Thomas to 1/1? 

Have you considered using Canaanites so that you can give opponent a big numbers character to choose blocker?
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Offline Kor

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Have you considered using Gates of Samaria to decrease Thomas to 1/1? 

Have you considered using Canaanites so that you can give opponent a big numbers character to choose blocker?

Seems like those ideas could work, just need to put the extra effort in to make them happen.
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Offline The Guardian

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So one of the players in our playgroup has used this deck in a couple tournaments now (including at the T2 Only). He's pulled it off once or twice, and been within a turn or two in a couple other games (either the opponent got to 7 or the game timed out).

I think the main issue at this point is that others in the group know it's coming and can play accordingly. The more the opponent knows about how it works, the higher potential for disruption.  8)

Fortress Alstad
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Offline Kor

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So one of the players in our playgroup has used this deck in a couple tournaments now (including at the T2 Only). He's pulled it off once or twice, and been within a turn or two in a couple other games (either the opponent got to 7 or the game timed out).

I think the main issue at this point is that others in the group know it's coming and can play accordingly. The more the opponent knows about how it works, the higher potential for disruption.  8)

I'm glad some people are getting enjoyment out of it.  There are definitely more reliable ways to win a game of redemption though  :)
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Offline TheJaylor

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Unfortunately in one of his games his really good opponent made a really good play by discarding Disciples of the Lamb off the top of his deck and he didn't have a way to get it back.  ::)

Offline The Guardian

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Unfortunately in one of his games his really good opponent made a really good play by randomly discarding Disciples of the Lamb off the top of his deck and he didn't have a way to get it back.  ::)

FTFY.
Fortress Alstad
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Offline Kor

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Unfortunately in one of his games his really good opponent made a really good play by discarding Disciples of the Lamb off the top of his deck and he didn't have a way to get it back.  ::)

Was he not playing Abraham’s Descendant?  The ability to recur pieces that were lost was one of my reasons for including that card in my list.
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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I think this can be done while still having a deck and an ability to draw. 4 disciples in reserve plus Disciples of the Lamb then your offense is all of the disciples, including x2 of some, Chariot of Fire and The Nee Covenant (original), and you can still attack and make normal rescues. Constantly heal and keep out your heroes, Valley/Eternal Covenant also help, The New Covenant in case they remove anyone you need but also you do 2x Disciples for the most part and the ones you have 1x you double up on in the reserve. Wait for Disciples of the Lamb in the reserve and just run a couple Book of Jashar, not 4. Between Thad, My Lord and My God, random purple, reach/AoC, you should be just fine rescuing with constant hero recursion then pop out Disciples on them late. I don’t recall but if Disciples of the Lamb is not “if used by a disciple” then I would have an ET out and late game just Claudia ET, or just ET and play DotL. You can add provisions and Abe’s Descendant and 4x Jashar, or you can just play purple that keeps heroes out and when you’re at 4-5 mid game you pop off DotL. I don’t see a deck losing much that’s fast, keeps hitting with Thad and battle winners then gets to play SoG 3 times.

Offline Bobbert

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DotL does specify being used by a Disciple, so you can't use it off ET. That said, you're probably right that going all in isn't worth it.
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Offline thecoolguy

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Guys you could also run great faith the purple card that exchanges for any enh in the deck use Mathew to band to Thomas and decrease them both by 6/6 so you could have the combo faster!!
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Having the enhancement isn’t the issue, it’s kind of the whole having 12 Disciples out to be the main inhibitor.

Offline thecoolguy

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Points to song of Moses from RoJ
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Offline Sean

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Points to song of Moses from RoJ
You might have some difficulty matching brigade/getting initiative to play it and it isn't TC.
May you prosper greatly!
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