Author Topic: Zeal for the Lord and 2 Color Evil Characters (Read 13028 times)

Gabe · « **on:** January 02, 2009, 11:43:54 PM »

If a person plays Zeal for the Lord and chooses a 2 colored evil character as one of the targets can they choose a second evil character that shares a brigade with the first one?

Example: Can "Teal Priest" uses Zeal for the Lord to target Amalekite's Slave (brown/gold) and King Zed (brown).

Zeal for the Lord
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Teal • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and discard two Evil Characters of different brigades. Cannot be negated if used by Phinehas, son of Eleazar.

DaClock · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2009, 11:49:29 PM »

I don't think so. After you've discarded a "brown" character you can't discard another of the same color. The Amalekite's Slave is Brown AND Gold, not Brown OR Gold.

"A multi-colored character is ignored if any of its brigade colors are ignored." -REG (Ignore/Repel-Special Conditions)

I think this is a similar case, where if you discard one character, you discard all of it's brigades.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2009, 11:50:28 PM »

This (or at least other similar) situation has come up in a game or two with me, but I never really found it to be a problem. $:-\$ I guess I always assumed that if there were a multi-color EC, you could decide yourself which of the colors you will be using for the discard. (I'm sorry I couldn't put that in better terms.)

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:28:02 AM »

You can do that. Just as a red d/c can kill paul without targeting all his brigades.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:55:01 AM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 03, 2009, 12:28:02 AM

You can do that. Just as a red d/c can kill paul without targeting all his brigades.

But this situation is the opposite of your example. In your example, something targetting small (reg) can target something big (multi).

In this example, something big is targeting something small.

with DaClock.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2009, 03:56:33 AM »

It is not the opposite.
it says discard two characters of two brigades.

1 is brown
The other is Brown AND Gold.

Just as I can select to kill paul cuz he is part red with sword of vengence I believe you can select the Gold half Am slave.

Master KChief · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2009, 07:23:33 AM »

actually, you dont have a 'choice' here. TAS retains all the brigades that he has...brown AND gold. zeals restriction is that you must choose 2 evil characters of different brigades. TAS is both brown and gold, so you may not choose a brown or gold EC as your second target.

additionally, you can never use zeal on the self promo.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2009, 07:57:09 AM »

I agree with DaClock. If you have already discarded Amalekite's Slave, then you have discarded a brown character (and you have discarded a gold character). To now try to discard another brown character is not allowed.

Quote from: Master KChief on January 03, 2009, 07:23:33 AM

additionally, you can never use zeal on the self promo.

I thought this was one of those "two if you can, one if that's all there is" scenarios. You can discard just one EC with Zeal can't you?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** January 03, 2009, 09:34:27 AM »

What if you first discard the brown character? Then you have to discard a character that isn't brown, which could be TAS, since it is also yellow. That's how I see it.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #9 on:** January 03, 2009, 09:44:27 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on January 03, 2009, 09:34:27 AM

What if you first discard the brown character? Then you have to discard a character that isn't brown, which could be TAS, since it is also yellow. That's how I see it.

I disagree. TAS is also a brown character and you have already discarded one.

TheMarti · « **Reply #10 on:** January 03, 2009, 09:57:56 AM »

I agree with what everyone else is saying... its both colors, not just one or the other.

~TM

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #11 on:** January 03, 2009, 10:26:36 AM »

Quote

You can discard just one EC with Zeal can't you?

You can ONLY if there is only one evil brigade in play. Otherwise, you must kill two.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 03, 2009, 09:44:27 AM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on January 03, 2009, 09:34:27 AM
What if you first discard the brown character? Then you have to discard a character that isn't brown, which could be TAS, since it is also yellow. That's how I see it.

I disagree. TAS is also a brown character and you have already discarded one.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:45:15 AM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 03, 2009, 10:26:36 AM

You can ONLY if there is only one evil brigade in play. Otherwise, you must kill two.

I guess I don't understand the distinction. If you can't discard two, you either can discard one or you cannot. You have agreed that you can. Why would Self cause an exception?

Master KChief · « **Reply #13 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:53:33 AM »

i've always understood zeal to work as you MUST discard 2 evil characters or discard none at all, not a 'fulfill as much as you can' type of special ability. it distincty says you must discard 2 evil characters, not UP TO 2 evil characters.

self would be an exception because it shares a brigade with every evil brigade feasible, therefore it can never be discarded by zeal.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2009, 11:55:54 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 03, 2009, 11:53:33 AM

i've always understood zeal to work as you MUST discard 2 evil characters or discard none at all, not a 'fulfill as much as you can' type of special ability. it distincty says you must discard 2 evil characters, not UP TO 2 evil characters.

self would be an exception because it shares a brigade with every evil brigade feasible, therefore it can never be discarded by zeal.

A ruling was made that if there is ONLY 1 evil brigade in play, then Zeal can be used against 1 EC. www.redemptionreg.com still has Zeal under the newest ruling category, but the entry seems to not have been updated. Weird

Master KChief · « **Reply #15 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:04:45 PM »

hmm. i dont remember when that ruling was made...

however, if that is true, self could still not be discarded because there is not just 1 evil brigade in play but 7, correct?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:12:04 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 03, 2009, 11:53:33 AM

i've always understood zeal to work as you MUST discard 2 evil characters or discard none at all, not a 'fulfill as much as you can' type of special ability. it distincty says you must discard 2 evil characters, not UP TO 2 evil characters.

I don't see how this is different than Jephthah, who also does not say "up to." From the REG:

When using Jephthahs special ability, the holder must have a draw pile and must discard two characters in the same territory unless only one character is available.

Quote from: Master KChief on January 03, 2009, 11:53:33 AM

self would be an exception because it shares a brigade with every evil brigade feasible, therefore it can never be discarded by zeal.

I understand why Self would be an exception if cannot just discard one.

Quote from: Master KChief on January 03, 2009, 12:04:45 PM

however, if that is true, self could still not be discarded because there is not just 1 evil brigade in play but 7, correct?

However, I do not understand why the exception for Self is based on this idea of "only one evil brigade in play" premise. I thought the basis of the Jephthah ruling was that if only one target is available then you can discard one. If Self is the only target for Zeal, why could I not choose him?

Master KChief · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:15:06 PM »

i think the way cameron is explaining it is that the only condition where you can actually discard one evil character is if only 1 evil brigade is in play.

if only self is in play, it cannot be discarded because technically there are 7 evil brigades in play.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:18:15 PM »

I guess I am really questioning Cameron. Are you paraphrasing the ruling or was it really specified that there can "only be one evil brigade in play?"

Gabe · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2009, 12:55:53 PM »

Zeal can discard one evil character if there is only one in play or if all evil characters in play are of the same brigade. This was ruled to be the same as Jephthah (complete as much as possible) when Priests first came out but has been purged from the boards.

Because that's true Zeal can discard Self. Based on my original question I'm not clear if it could discard a second Character if I chose Self because they would share at least one brigade.

I haven't played teal much since RoA came out but the few times I ran into this situation I believe I just assumed you could discard both the dual brigade character and the single brigade character. Last night when playing Mike it came up and he raised this question. I could really see it go either way but DaClock's logic seems to make sense to me.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2009, 01:30:08 PM »

I guess to me it's a matter of asking this question:

I just discarded a brown character. Self (or Amalekite's Slave) is counted as a brown brigade character (as well as the other colors). Can I therefore discard another brown character?

Master KChief · « **Reply #21 on:** January 03, 2009, 01:32:56 PM »

i would say no because you already discarded 1 brown evil character (self or tas).

on another note, if this holds true, then self can never be discarded by zeal as long as there is at least one other evil character in play. sweet.

Gabe · « **Reply #22 on:** January 03, 2009, 02:12:56 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on January 03, 2009, 01:32:56 PM

on another note, if this holds true, then self can never be discarded by zeal as long as there is at least one other evil character in play. sweet.

That logic is full of holes. It doesn't hold water. No matter which way the answer to my question goes you'll be able to choose Self for at least one of the targets.

Master KChief · « **Reply #23 on:** January 03, 2009, 02:20:06 PM »

how do you figure that? if its ruled you cannot choose 2 evil characters that share the same color, how can you POSSIBLY choose self as one of the evil characters since it shares a color with every evil brigade feasible?

edit: actually, i may see your point. what i meant to say was you can never choose self as a target of zeal if there is at least TWO other ec's in play with different brigade colors.

im used to CCG's (mtg, yugioh, ufs) where abilities are played out as cost (must be paid) to get an effect (as much as possible, following all restrictions imposed). the 2 evil characters seems like a restriction to me, and that was the basis behind my argument earlier. seems logical to me.

STAMP · « **Reply #24 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:27:52 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on January 02, 2009, 11:43:54 PM

If a person plays Zeal for the Lord and chooses a 2 colored evil character as one of the targets can they choose a second evil character that shares a brigade with the first one?

Example: Can "Teal Priest" uses Zeal for the Lord to target Amalekite's Slave (brown/gold) and King Zed (brown).

Zeal for the Lord
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Teal • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and discard two Evil Characters of different brigades. Cannot be negated if used by Phinehas, son of Eleazar.

Once you target Amalekite's Slave you may then target a second EC of any brigade(s) that is not brown or evil gold.

You cannot target King Zed.
You cannot target Self.
You cannot target Bear (RoA).

You can target a single brigade EC from black, crimson, gray, pale green or orange.
You can target Antiochus Epiphanes.

News:

Author Topic: Zeal for the Lord and 2 Color Evil Characters (Read 13028 times)

TheMarti