Author Topic: Zeal for the Lord and 2 Color Evil Characters (Read 13024 times)

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #50 on:** January 05, 2009, 04:02:17 PM »

It really is not worth any more debate. At a guess, I don't think anyone really cares how it is ruled, as long as it is ruled consistently.

lightningninja · « **Reply #51 on:** January 05, 2009, 04:03:08 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on January 05, 2009, 04:02:17 PM

It really is not worth any more debate. At a guess, I don't think anyone really cares how it is ruled, as long as it is ruled consistently.

And here I was thinking I had made a good point...

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #52 on:** January 05, 2009, 04:05:35 PM »

I'm not saying you didn't. I think several people have made excellent points, which is why an executive decision is the only feasible resolution.

NWJosh · « **Reply #53 on:** January 06, 2009, 09:46:46 AM »

Yeah great points have been made for both sides and honestly I'm not sure which one I'm leaning towards. I know which one helps my deck the most but not which ruling I think is the best or most consistent for the game. I honestly believe this ruling comes down to which choice is the most consistent with previous rulings on similar type of questions.

Gabe · « **Reply #54 on:** January 06, 2009, 09:57:02 AM »

This came up in one of my games last night. Since there's no official ruling we thought we'd go with the side that has the most support on this thread but that turned out to be pretty even...

In the end I let the person discard my dual color character and another one that shared the same brigade because that's how I played it prior to this question coming up. That one play was very close to deciding the outcome in a game that ended 5-4.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #55 on:** January 06, 2009, 10:30:06 AM »

Quote from: NWJosh on January 06, 2009, 09:46:46 AM

Yeah great points have been made for both sides and honestly I'm not sure which one I'm leaning towards. I know which one helps my deck the most but not which ruling I think is the best or most consistent for the game. I honestly believe this ruling comes down to which choice is the most consistent with previous rulings on similar type of questions.

Lets take Paul for example. He is multi, so it was ruled he satisfies Hidden Treasure's requirements (lone green prophet). Characters that are 2+ colors are both at the same time. Otherwise, they couldn't use both brigades in battle. Therefore, if you discard A slave, you discard a EC that is both gold and brown. Therefore, it seems IMO to be definite that another brown character could NOT be discarded as a brown EC was already d/ced. Remember, A Slave is as much gold and he is brown. It would also seem that Self could not be discarded unless he was the only EC in play.

Just my opinion, but it seems to be consistent with the rules and previous rulings.

lightningninja · « **Reply #56 on:** January 06, 2009, 11:37:38 PM »

And that's why I think that it's like if you played RTC to ignore gray against antiochus, you still ignore his black, cause he's part black. So I think that you can target just one side.

But I agree with YMT. Let's have Bryon, Schaef, Mike, and the other big guys get an official ruling. Although how Bryon would rule it is the only one that really matters to me cause I go to his tournaments.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #57 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:20:37 AM »

Quote from: fireninja on January 06, 2009, 11:37:38 PM

And that's why I think that it's like if you played RTC to ignore gray against antiochus, you still ignore his black, cause he's part black. So I think that you can target just one side.

When playing RTC to Ignore Antiochus Gray Brigade you are only ignoring his Gray brigade and by ignoring the Gray brigade of Antiochus he cannot enter battle regardless of his Black brigade, but not because by default Black brigade was ignored also Antiochus is dual color Gray and Black, meaning he is all Gray and all Black brigade, not part of one and part of the other. The multi color brigade representation on the card is just that, a representation of which brigades a character is all of, not part of. Just a nitpick/clarification.

Godspeed,
Mike

SirNobody · « **Reply #58 on:** January 13, 2009, 01:53:47 PM »

Hey,

A multicolor character can be targeted as any of the brigades it has. Thus Sword of Vengeance can discard Soldier of God. Similarly Zeal for the Lord can target King Zedekiah and The Amalekites Slave (targeting King Zedekiah as brown and The Amalekites Slave as Gold).

Discarding King Zedekiah and The Amalekites Slave discards a Brown Evil Character and it discards a Gold Evil Character. That would be two evil characters of different brigades, thus the condition on Zeal is met.

At least that's how I understand it. I don't understand the management of multi-color things as well as I would like.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

Gabe · « **Reply #59 on:** January 13, 2009, 02:00:52 PM »

Tim, thanks for your input. It's great to have you back on the boards after your short absence. You're presence has been missed.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #60 on:** January 13, 2009, 02:09:23 PM »

Quote

Discarding King Zedekiah and The Amalekites Slave discards a Brown Evil Character and it discards a Gold Evil Character. That would be two evil characters of different brigades, thus the condition on Zeal is met.

I guess that makes sense to me. Zeal doesn't say "d/c two ECs that aren't the same brigade" it says "d/c two ECs of different brigades."

I still could go either way, but Tim's explanation makes sense to me.

Bryon · « **Reply #61 on:** January 15, 2009, 10:24:16 AM »

Hmm. After reading every word of every post in this thread, I was confidently ready to agree with YMT/Clock/Stamp. Then Tim posted. Now I just unconfidently agree with YMT/Clock/Stamp.

Does "of different brigades" mean:
a) have at least one different brigade than the other
OR
b) do not share a brigade

I always assumed a. But I don't know if that causes other card not to work properly. Does "of different brigades" appear elsewhere? Doesn't "of the same brigade" count each brigade? Does that effect how we interpret "of different brigades."?

As an aside, this card was based on the Bible story where Phinehas executes the Israelite man (think brown brigade) and the foreign woman (think some other brigade).

The Schaef · « **Reply #62 on:** January 15, 2009, 11:06:45 AM »

If you're targeting two cards of the same color, the fact that there is a second separate brigade is not considered. Similarly, I think as long as you're targeting two different colors, the fact that they have a brigade in common doesn't enter into the equation.

Discarding a gray and a black/gray would be discarding a black and a gray, just as discarding a black or a gray could each target the dual-color card.

Bryon · « **Reply #63 on:** January 15, 2009, 11:08:56 AM »

That makes sense. I now unconfidently agree with Tim/Schaef.

STAMP · « **Reply #64 on:** January 15, 2009, 12:22:32 PM »

I feel that someone who is a member of the group defined as math teachers who is also part of the group of official Redemption rule-makers should make the call. You see, I'm old and can't remember my rules about mutual exclusivity versus inclusivity, and independence versus dependence, etc. It would seem to make sense to me to use these common real-world rules in this case.

Anyone have some feedback?

(Of course, I also felt that we should use the rules for circuit analysis to define the rules for interrupts, so...)

everytribe · « **Reply #65 on:** January 15, 2009, 01:05:55 PM »

I confidently agree with Tim/Schaef/Bryon.

DaClock · « **Reply #66 on:** January 15, 2009, 01:17:40 PM »

Obviously that isn't how I thought this was going to be ruled but I'm glad that we have consensus.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #67 on:** January 15, 2009, 01:34:30 PM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 15, 2009, 01:17:40 PM

Obviously that isn't how I thought this was going to be ruled but I'm glad that we have consensus.

I agree that it is most important that we have consensus. I also am glad that the ruling ended up going with what Godspeed, Ninja, Galad, and I all thought at the begining

And as for your signature there Ben, I have a picture for you

DaClock · « **Reply #68 on:** January 15, 2009, 01:37:29 PM »

HAHAHAHA, where did you find that? I'm going to make that my default image.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #69 on:** January 15, 2009, 01:44:19 PM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 15, 2009, 01:37:29 PM

HAHAHAHA, where did you find that? I'm going to make that my default image.

I didn't find it. I took it

And you're welcome to use it in any way that you wish. That was a fun night of gaming and it brings back good memories

The Guardian · « **Reply #70 on:** January 15, 2009, 04:17:40 PM »

I think the bottom line question is this:

Interpreting Zeal, do we say
1. the player picks two brigades, then chooses ECs of those brigades to discard
or
2. the player picks two ECs to discard and based on the selection of the first, the second has additional brigade restrictions?

New Raven BR · « **Reply #71 on:** January 17, 2009, 12:17:55 PM »

ugh! nosebleeds -_-
oh how i hate them so!

DaClock · « **Reply #72 on:** January 18, 2009, 12:39:57 AM »

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on January 17, 2009, 12:17:55 PM

ugh! nosebleeds -_-
oh how i hate them so!

Yeah, and this one ruined my poptart!

Tsavong Lah · « **Reply #73 on:** January 18, 2009, 02:45:36 AM »

I don't know about anyone else, but I would never have let my own blood ruin any poptart.

lightningninja · « **Reply #74 on:** January 23, 2009, 10:13:43 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on January 15, 2009, 10:24:16 AM

Hmm. After reading every word of every post in this thread, I was confidently ready to agree with YMT/Clock/Stamp. Then Tim posted. Now I just unconfidently agree with YMT/Clock/Stamp.

Does "of different brigades" mean:
a) have at least one different brigade than the other
OR
b) do not share a brigade

I always assumed a. But I don't know if that causes other card not to work properly. Does "of different brigades" appear elsewhere? Doesn't "of the same brigade" count each brigade? Does that effect how we interpret "of different brigades."?

As an aside, this card was based on the Bible story where Phinehas executes the Israelite man (think brown brigade) and the foreign woman (think some other brigade).

I try my hardest to argue... and so does prof underwood and others... and then Bryon makes one post and everyone hops on board! It's... infuriating! Welcome back Bryon!

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Author Topic: Zeal for the Lord and 2 Color Evil Characters (Read 13024 times)

The Schaef