Author Topic: Avengers: Age of Ultron  (Read 5782 times)

Offline Master KChief

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Avengers: Age of Ultron
« on: May 03, 2015, 12:04:03 AM »
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 12:52:23 AM »
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DRK was more artistic
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 12:57:13 AM »
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DRK was more artistic

What does that mean?
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Offline Minion of Jesus

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 09:22:24 AM »
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I certainly liked it more than the first Avengers, but not more than the Dark Knight Trilogy.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 04:30:11 PM »
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I did not like Age of Ultron, to be honest. It had some great moments, but all the blasphemy and mock profanity were too annoying to fully enjoy the rest of what was going on. I also did not like...

Spoiler (hover to show)
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browarod

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 09:14:15 AM »
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all the blasphemy
Please do elaborate.

Also, why is it a bad thing that the movie didn't fall exactly into the normal rut for this "theme"? I consider that a good thing, because otherwise it would just be a rehash of those other movies. This gave it a bit of uniqueness.

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2015, 11:40:07 AM »
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Also, why is it a bad thing that the movie didn't fall exactly into the normal rut for this "theme"?
For my part, I agree that it wasn't necessarily a bad thing that they took a slightly novel approach. IMO, it would have made the movie better if they had actually taken advantage of this distinction  and played it off of the standard trope.

Of course, Joss Whedon is "The Man" and I am not so my opinions on what would make a better movie are of little or no import.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2015, 03:48:48 PM »
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all the blasphemy
Please do elaborate.

Well....

Spoiler (hover to show)

Also, why is it a bad thing that the movie didn't fall exactly into the normal rut for this "theme"? I consider that a good thing, because otherwise it would just be a rehash of those other movies. This gave it a bit of uniqueness.

It's a bad thing because...
 
Spoiler (hover to show)
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2015, 03:55:02 PM »
+3
I actually thought the Scripture quoting was 100% on point and a chilling example of how Scripture can be twisted by impure minds. I don't think it's wrong to hear blasphemy spoken (which, it obviously was blasphemy), so I think the use of Scripture helped to flesh out the character of Ultron and his God complex.

As for his thematic turns, I personally would have hated him being just a standard machine. I think what makes him such an interesting character in this movie is that he wants to be human in many ways. Although he thinks he needs to destroy them, he simultaneously spends time searching for a body so that he can become one in essence.

browarod

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2015, 03:59:12 PM »
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I will admit I had to read the posts since my comment and remember back to the movie. I don't think I noticed his statements as being that related to scripture when I was watching the movie. It just seemed like the usual crazy villain monologue speech to me at the time, haha.

Offline Drrek

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2015, 04:11:04 PM »
+1
The devil literally quotes scripture in the Bible.  I don't have a problem with a villain with a God complex twisting scripture, since it's clearly not supposed to be something we emulate, but something we abhor.

Ultron was the best character in the movie, imo, and I love that he was unlike the other rogue AI's we've seen before. 

I did have some narrative issues with the movie.

Spoiler (hover to show)

None of these issues were a deal breaker to me though, and I quite enjoyed the movie.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2015, 05:44:08 PM »
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To Drekk:

My son is more versed in the MCU than I, but I do not know his sources. He told me the following:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Regarding the blasphemy:

I understand that y'all are taking the glass-half-full approach, but let me present the glass-half-empty approach. This is just a mockery of God and Jesus. God is the vindictive being that has no issue killing off innocents, even with natural disasters. Jesus "built his church" on mind control (or brain washing), and was equally delusional.

I realize that this is a more harsh approach to the message, but I feel it is not unwarranted. There was so much effort put into ridiculing people who have issues with profanity. This was the message I received:

Spoiler (hover to show)
You'll have to excuse me if I decide to hold on to my beliefs that profanity is a choice that Christians should avoid.  ;)
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Offline LukeChips

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2015, 05:47:38 PM »
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BEST MOVIE EVVVVEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR

browarod

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2015, 05:52:22 PM »
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To expound on what YMT said:


Spoiler (hover to show)

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2015, 08:47:59 PM »
-1
Christians can say whatever they want

Offline Drrek

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 08:50:29 PM »
+1

Regarding the blasphemy:

I understand that y'all are taking the glass-half-full approach, but let me present the glass-half-empty approach. This is just a mockery of God and Jesus. God is the vindictive being that has no issue killing off innocents, even with natural disasters. Jesus "built his church" on mind control (or brain washing), and was equally delusional.



I'm not taking any "glass half full approach," I'm taking the approach that we are supposed to see the villain blaspheming and twisting scripture, and then reject what he says because he is obviously wrong.  If you see an example of blasphemy and are unable to tell the difference of when the author is trying to show a twisted character we are not supposed to emulate and when the author is actually trying to promote blasphemy, then I guess you shouldn't read the bible, because you won't be able to tell that the examples of people blaspheming there are meant to be an example of what we are not to do.  Honestly I can't see how you would think that the movie makers would be promoting the type of hypocrisy and twisting of scripture that is portrayed by Ultron.
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Offline Red

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 09:18:19 PM »
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Christians can say whatever they want
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 09:38:33 PM »
+1
Honestly I can't see how you would think that the movie makers would be promoting the type of hypocrisy and twisting of scripture that is portrayed by Ultron.

Simple... by making a blasphemous evil character that people actually like:

Ultron was the best character in the movie, imo, and I love that he was unlike the other rogue AI's we've seen before. 

------------------------

There is rape and incest in the Bible, too, but I don't need to see bad guys do those things in a movie theater to know that they are bad. You can create a bad guy in a movie without bringing blasphemy into the movie... that is my simple take. We already knew going into this movie that it was going to be a worldwide blockbuster viewed by millions. To me, there is an intentional knock on Christianity when there was no need to go there. The movie would have still been a blockbuster without it. These types of movies tend to be a platform for directors to throw in their own beliefs, or at least the "popular" beliefs.

I realize that my opinion is more old-fashioned than Captain America, so my distaste for this movie is just for me personally. I also know that there are many on these boards that have a man-crush on Joss Whedon, so the -1's will keep piling up on me. However, I felt it necessary to share my misgivings for the rogue reader that is interested in my perspective.

I won't post anymore about this topic. If anyone has questions for me, please direct them to PM. I know there have been concerns about recent threads turning heated, so I will back out before that can happen here. I have no problem being "alone in my principles" (who knows the movie reference there?)  ;)
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Offline Drrek

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2015, 09:43:37 PM »
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Ultron was the best character in the movie, imo, and I love that he was unlike the other rogue AI's we've seen before. 


Just because I think a character is well written and enjoyable to watch does not mean I think they are a figure to follow the example of.  I like Darth Vader as a character too, but I don't want to go out and murder children.
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Offline Eragon5

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2015, 09:57:04 PM »
+2
YMT makes some good points about the movie, while I still enjoy the movie in spite of it, I didn't like some of the very things YMT mentioned. Captain America is supposed to be the embodiment of what is right with America and is one of the better heroes out there. I didn't appreciate the writers having him stoop to cursing like everyone else. Please enjoy the movie (because it was awesome) but don't knock YMT for raising reasonable objections. :)
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2015, 07:38:17 AM »
+1
I also know that there are many on these boards that have a man-crush on Joss Whedon, so the -1's will keep piling up on me.
As someone who both greatly enjoys most of the work by Mr. Whedon and who cannot help but jump on the nearest bandwagon, I was looking for those piles of -1's so I could join in. Sadly (as you can tell from my face -> :() I was unable to find them.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2015, 11:13:58 AM »
+3
As someone who both greatly enjoys most of the work by Mr. Whedon and who cannot help but jump on the nearest bandwagon, I was looking for those piles of -1's so I could join in. Sadly (as you can tell from my face -> :() I was unable to find them.

LOL.  :doh:

Just before I posted that there were -1s on my posts. Shortly afterward they were gone, so I thought about editing my post. However, I really wanted to say "man-crush" so I left it.  ;)

The -1s keep appearing then disappearing, so I guess it has become sort of a game. I'm glad I could bring so much enjoyment.  ;D
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2015, 11:30:33 AM »
+2
The -1s keep appearing then disappearing, so I guess it has become sort of a game. I'm glad I could bring so much enjoyment.  ;D
I think you may have a hidden army of support. IMO you are expressing a point-of-view that is worth hearing despite how I personally feel about it. (So just before you posted this--and well-after my previous post--I plus-oned a couple of your posts that had a single -1.

Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2015, 02:27:40 PM »
+2
I thought the movie overall was well done and enjoyable though not as much as the first.  That being said, I do agree with some of YMT's points.

I felt generally the same way about the profanity and was not surprised but disappointed that they had to bring Captain America there. I understand the cultural generally views profanity with the view the movie expresses and that characters like Iron Man are expected to talk like that.  I wish they left Captain America as an example of a different view and standard.

I also felt there was some blasphemy but not where YMT saw it. I didn't like Ultron but I felt he was well written and portrayed as a arrogant twisted villain. There is a difference between liking the writing of a story and liking the evil guy in a movie that glorifies evil and makes the evil characters enviable.  The character of Ultron might have been blaspheming or mocking God (or just crazy) but I didn't think that part of the movie was mocking God or Jesus or saying that the biblical God was like Ultron though I suppose one could interpret it that way.

I felt the actual blasphemy was with the repeated references to gods among us but that is also expected when there are false "gods" as characters in the story.  You could easily take some of the comments about Thor and in the first movie Loki (puny god) to be making the atheists' point that "gods" are just powerful people or ideas from culture that ultimately fail.  I personally think this is a good opportunity for Christians to open up some conversation.  I agree that much of what humanity has called God or gods is pathetic, sad, untrustworthy, made up, and worthy of mockery (the Bible takes some time to mock these other "gods" too).  Thankfully our God and Savior Jesus Christ is not like those other gods in nature, character, or power.  A god that can be beat up by the Hulk or any monster IS puny and often when people think the God of the Bible is dumb, mean, powerless or some other negative attribute it is because the version of God in their mind they are judging is a false one that doesn't match the Bible. 

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Avengers: Age of Ultron
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2015, 06:04:39 PM »
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Christians can say whatever they want
Antinomian.

Nope, I'm probably more reformed than you are.