Author Topic: Black is weak  (Read 3034 times)

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Black is weak
« on: September 19, 2018, 12:28:55 PM »
+5
Maybe this will help:

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« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 12:48:28 PM by Gabe »
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Offline soul seeker

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2018, 12:34:36 PM »
0
I like the rework!  My cards are in storage atm so I'm not sure of wording, but can Cloud Moses shut his ability down while in territory?  (Asking if this was intentional to make it possible to drop AotL on him if someone desired)
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2018, 12:37:12 PM »
+1
I like the rework!  My cards are in storage atm so I'm not sure of wording, but can Cloud Moses shut his ability down while in territory?  (Asking if this was intentional to make it possible to drop AotL on him if someone desired)

Moses (CoW) will not stop this card during battle unless he's banded in (by Faith of Samuel for example).
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Offline Asahel24601

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2018, 12:41:10 PM »
0
So much yes. Canaanite support and big protection from dominants block? This should be good.

Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2018, 12:42:11 PM »
+5
Finally, a fair match up for The Mighty Warrior in the cosmic contest of who has the best thighs!
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Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 12:42:49 PM »
0
A reverse Emperor Claudius?? cool.

Offline Xonathan

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 12:44:14 PM »
+2
Awesome card. Can he be warrior class?  :angel:
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 12:46:21 PM »
+2
Awesome card. Can he be warrior class?  :angel:

Sure! 8)
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Offline Xonathan

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »
+3


Foreign Sword and KoT FTW
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2018, 01:01:17 PM »
0
So I don't know Canaanites but is there many ways to get back your EC that you give to your opponent?  seems like a large cost to pay for a draw 1 if there isn't a few viable ways to get them back

Offline Xonathan

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2018, 01:04:16 PM »
0
So I don't know Canaanites but is there many ways to get back your EC that you give to your opponent?  seems like a large cost to pay for a draw 1 if there isn't a few viable ways to get them back




Edit: I feel like there is another card but I can't remember. You can get some synergy with this bad boy too.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 01:12:02 PM by Xonathan »
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Offline Asahel24601

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2018, 01:14:20 PM »
0
So I don't know Canaanites but is there many ways to get back your EC that you give to your opponent?  seems like a large cost to pay for a draw 1 if there isn't a few viable ways to get them back
If they give KoT Warrior class as Xonathan suggested, Foreign sword can topdeck them, which basically makes it draw one to put a Canaanite on top of your deck.

Offline redemption collector 777

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2018, 01:29:54 PM »
0
So I don't know Canaanites but is there many ways to get back your EC that you give to your opponent?  seems like a large cost to pay for a draw 1 if there isn't a few viable ways to get them back


I kinda agree with the cost benefit. Seems a little too costly to give a Canaanite to draw 1 card.

Maybe it could be draw 2 or some other small ability??

Offline Xonathan

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2018, 01:39:10 PM »
+4
So I don't know Canaanites but is there many ways to get back your EC that you give to your opponent?  seems like a large cost to pay for a draw 1 if there isn't a few viable ways to get them back


I kinda agree with the cost benefit. Seems a little too costly to give a Canaanite to draw 1 card.

Maybe it could be draw 2 or some other small ability??

Consider that the Canaanite is coming from the reserve so its easy to setup the give with a weak sauce Canaanite. Next turn, you come in with Ehud or Asahel for an easy battle.  There is some synergy with the cards mentioned above plus maybe some new cards will interact with given away Canaanites.

I for one like that we are getting cards with a cost for benefit abilities.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2018, 01:56:38 PM »
0
So I don't know Canaanites but is there many ways to get back your EC that you give to your opponent?  seems like a large cost to pay for a draw 1 if there isn't a few viable ways to get them back


I kinda agree with the cost benefit. Seems a little too costly to give a Canaanite to draw 1 card.

Maybe it could be draw 2 or some other small ability??

Consider that the Canaanite is coming from the reserve so its easy to setup the give with a weak sauce Canaanite. Next turn, you come in with Ehud or Asahel for an easy battle.  There is some synergy with the cards mentioned above plus maybe some new cards will interact with given away Canaanites.

I for one like that we are getting cards with a cost for benefit abilities.

I love cost/benefit as well, but giving your opponent ECs is a pretty steep cost. Grabbing it from Reserve is better, but I don't want to put worthless characters in my deck if I can avoid it. See my post in New Card Ideas for my thoughts on the subject.  ;)
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Offline SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2018, 02:17:24 PM »
0
Maybe they have a black Canaanite coming that does something bad if you give to your opponent from reserve! PLOT TWIST!  ;)
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2018, 03:40:37 PM »
+3
Ever since Canaanites were introduced they have benefited from plaguing the opponent's territory. That's made red (Asahel) and gold (Ehud) two of the most popular pairings with Canaanites. Sisera's Oppression and Idols of Canaan (mentioned below) are a couple examples of Canaanite themed cards that benefit from an opponent controlling a Canaanite.  I'm certain there will be more in the future.

Foreign Sword could not be used to topdeck the Canaanite "donated" by KoT since the opponent doesn't own the card ("opponent's" requires ownership and control). But IIRC KoT doesn't require that you give the Canaanite. I think it plays out like this - You may take a Canaanite from Reserve. You may give it to opponent's territory to draw 1.

We have a series of "Doomed" characters coming in 6 of the 7 evil brigades. How fun would this card be?

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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2018, 03:52:58 PM »
0
I love it, but that's a weird verse for a card called "Doomed Canaanites"....  :o

I am curious to hear more about these doomed cards though. Sounds like maybe one for a major civ in each brigade, with a reference to prophecy about their destruction? Sounds sweet 8)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 04:03:18 PM by Bobbert »
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Online Red

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2018, 04:07:23 PM »
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I love it, but that's a weird verse for a card called "Doomed Canaanites"....  :o

I am curious to hear more about these doomed cards though. Sounds like maybe one for a major civ in each brigade, with a reference to prophecy about their destruction? Sounds sweet 8)
Context my boy, context. That verse is part of a prophetic oracle against Tyre and Philistia. Tyre was a major Canaanite center, thus "King of Tyrus".
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Offline Kor

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2018, 11:39:22 PM »
+1

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Curious as to the usefulness of the * ability.  Wouldn't it just discard itself on your opponent's first turn?

Also, why limit one per territory?  If there was more than one they could just discard each other until there was only one left and it wouldn't be a problem.

Or am I just entirely misunderstanding this card?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 11:43:20 PM by Kor »
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2018, 11:43:07 PM »
0

Spoiler (hover to show)


Curious as to the usefulness of the * ability.  Wouldn't it just discard itself on your opponent's first turn?

Also, why limit one per territory?  If there was more than one they could just discard each other and it wouldn't be a problem.

Or am I just entirely misunderstanding this card?


Maybe it could be each discard instead so if they want to get rid of it for free first turn they have to not play anything?

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2018, 01:40:44 AM »
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Foreign Sword could not be used to topdeck the Canaanite "donated" by KoT since the opponent doesn't own the card ("opponent's" requires ownership and control). But IIRC KoT doesn't require that you give the Canaanite. I think it plays out like this - You may take a Canaanite from Reserve. You may give it to opponent's territory to draw 1.

When you give a card to an opponent they gain Permanent Control to them, which according to the REG treats the card as if it were theirs.

From the REG
Quote
Permanent Control
If a player has permanent control of a card, then he can treat that card as if it came from his deck. By default, a player has permanent control of all cards on the playing surface that he owns. A player also has permanent control of all cards in their hand. A player may gain permanent control of an opponent's card with a take or give effect that targets that card, or by using an exchange effect that exchanges one of the player's cards with an opponent's card. See Control.

Unless I'm completely missing the point of this definition, if seems to me that it Foreign Sword would work on a character Given by King of Tyrus.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2018, 07:42:35 AM »
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+1 with ChristianSoldier, otherwise Asahel shouldn’t work either.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2018, 11:37:30 AM »
0
Unless I'm completely missing the point of this definition, if seems to me that it Foreign Sword would work on a character Given by King of Tyrus.

The portion of the REG you quoted isn't the key to determining if Foreign Sword works in this scenario. The following is found in the REG Glossary under Opponent.

Quote
Several cards in Redemption® refer to “opponent’s cards” (e.g., opponent’s Heroes). For a card to be considered an “opponent’s card”, that player must be the owner of the card as well as have control of the card. An “opponent’s” ability is an ability on an “opponent’s” card.

...otherwise Asahel shouldn’t work either.

Asahel doesn't work because he specifies "opponent's male human", unlike Ehud (RA) who simply says "from opponent's territory". I've only used gold Judges with Canaanites myself (because AUTO) and just assumed Asahel had the same wording as Ehud. My bad. Jael still works though.
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Offline Master Q

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Re: Black is weak
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2018, 12:23:10 PM »
+1
Back in black! Rock on! 8)

But IIRC KoT doesn't require that you give the Canaanite. I think it plays out like this - You may take a Canaanite from Reserve. You may give it to opponent's territory to draw 1.

I can see where you're coming from (good ol' Reach o' Desperation logic), but this is a cost/benefit, whereas Reach is not. Seems to me that, as worded, it would require the give to gain the draw. It reads like this:

"You may take a Canaanite from Reserve and give it to opponent's territory to draw 1."

The benefit (draw 1) only happens if the conditions before the to are met. Therefore, you must both A) Take a Canaanite from Reserve and B) give it to opponent's territory to C) draw 1. If you cannot fulfil either A or B, then C doesn't occur. That's what I would say, but I'm prepared to be proven wrong.


Just throwing some ideas out there, what if instead of draw 1, it was draw X (X = # of good brigades in battle)? Or give the Canaanite to take an evil card from Reserve? In any case, I'm digging it. Canaanites need a 'boss' character so bad.

Can't wait to see this KoT as a borderless card!
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