Author Topic: Seraph/Seraphim confusion (Read 6207 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **on:** May 01, 2011, 07:43:10 PM »

Okay, I completely forgot how this was ruled in the past, and the REG just confused me even more. Which of these can be in the same deck together?

Seraphim (to Green) (Wa)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 5 / 5 • Class: None • Special Ability: May band to any Green Brigade Hero. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Angel • Verse: Isaiah 6:6 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Common)

Seraphim (to Blue) (Wa)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 5 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: May band to any Blue Brigade Hero. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Angel • Verse: Isaiah 6:2 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Common)

Seraph (RA)
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 5 / 5 • Class: None • Special Ability: May band to a green brigade Prophet. Cannot be negated by an evil card. • Identifiers: OT Male Angel • Verse: Isaiah 6:2 • Availability: Rock of Ages booster packs (None)

Note the references and generic/unique differences... who is who here? why is one unique and one generic even with the same reference?

The M · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:03:52 PM »

I think a Blue and either one of the Green can go into a deck.

JSB23 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:42:54 PM »

All three can go in the same deck.
They have different names, abilities, numbers (?) and art

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:45:17 PM »

80% certain that Seraph and Seraphim (Band Green) can NOT go in the same deck.
100% that Seraphim (Band Green) and Seraphim (Band Blue) CAN go in the same deck.
about 65% certain that Seraph and Seraphim (Band Blue) CAN go in the same deck.
100% certain that [EDITED BY R.O.S.E.S] and Seraphim (Band Blue) can NOT go in the same deck.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2011, 11:16:21 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 01, 2011, 08:45:17 PM

80% certain that Seraph and Seraphim (Band Green) can NOT go in the same deck.

Why not? I can have King David and David in the same deck. I can have Ezekiel and The Watchman in the same deck (although I am not sure why I would want to). Why are Seraph and Seraphim different?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:14:23 AM »

I'd agree that they should be able to go in the same deck. Different name and generic, meets no requirements for uniqueness restrictions.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:49:15 AM »

Yeah, that's cool beans, I was under the impression that Seraph said 'Same unique character as Seraphim' or something of the sort.... Bad recall on my part, sorry.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2011, 05:19:16 PM »

Bumping this now that I can actually ask the question in full:

How many seraphs / seraphims can I have in my Isaiah decks?

Aelec Enitnel · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2011, 05:24:43 PM »

the white card that comes with the Kings(?) says
1) Character cards with the same title and the same art are considered duplicates for deck building

2) Character cards with the same title and the same brigade are considered duplicate characters unless they are a generic character and have differant art

Professoralstad · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2011, 05:33:31 PM »

Quote from: Aelec Enitnel on August 09, 2011, 05:24:43 PM

the white card that comes with the Kings(?) says
1) Character cards with the same title and the same art are considered duplicates for deck building

2) Character cards with the same title and the same brigade are considered duplicate characters unless they are a generic character and have differant art

AFAIK, this is still correct. Thus, I believe you can have Seraphim (band to blue), Seraphim (band to green), Seraph, and Seraph with a Live Coal all in the same deck. Only two have the same title, but they have different art and are generic.

However, only one version of Cherubim is allowed, since they have the same title, brigade, and art.

Aelec Enitnel · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2011, 05:49:03 PM »

Unfortuantly, He is the first silver-on-silver band, and I won't be able to use him as such...
(I don't do/hate doing T2)

*Edit* This new Seraphim has the same (but flipped) art as the warriors Seraphim, does that mean anything?

*Edit Again* Oh, yeah, he has a differant name, never mind.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2011, 01:06:09 AM »

Alright, just linking the images for clarification:

All 4 can be in the same deck? I just wanna make sure my deck is legal.

The M · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2011, 08:39:39 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 10, 2011, 01:06:09 AM

Alright, just linking the images for clarification:

All 4 can be in the same deck? I just wanna make sure my deck is legal.

lolwat?
I thought Seraph was silver.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2011, 08:59:40 AM »

And all 4 are generic, aren't they?

The Schaef · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2011, 11:14:15 AM »

Seraphim is a plural term, whereas Seraph is singular. Personally I don't consider them (Seraph plus Seraphim/Green) different titles any more than The Bear is different from Bear or Angel at the Tomb is different from Angel at Tomb. I do think Seraph with a Live Coal is sufficiently different (from Seraphim/Blue), however, and that it solves the problem the old cards had, about distinguishing between two very different cards with identical names.

But don't take that as the full weight of law unless a consensus forms behind my statement.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** August 10, 2011, 11:18:27 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on August 10, 2011, 11:14:15 AM

Seraphim is a plural term, whereas Seraph is singular. Personally I don't consider them (Seraph plus Seraphim/Green) different titles any more than The Bear is different from Bear or Angel at the Tomb is different from Angel at Tomb. I do think Seraph with a Live Coal is sufficiently different (from Seraphim/Blue), however, and that it solves the problem the old cards had, about distinguishing between two very different cards with identical names.

But don't take that as the full weight of law unless a consensus forms behind my statement.

Actually, I agree with Schaef, I think the two Seraphim that band to green/prophets would be the same card, because Seraph and Seraphim really are essentially the same title.

JSB23 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:13:07 PM »

Why don't you just make them all legal?
They have different abilities and (biblically speaking) there were a lot of seraphs so you can rule they're referring to different angels

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #17 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:26:35 PM »

The Bear and Bear are different from Seraph and Seriphim because The Bear/Bear speaks of one unique character (Morg/Morgan) as Seraph/Seraphim speak of one generic angel compared to a multitude of generic angels. Very different in my book.

The Schaef · « **Reply #18 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:46:35 PM »

I don't see it that way at all. Locust from the Pit is the same card despite being generic. And the Seraphim card only depicts a single angel in the art. Nearly everything else about the two cards is the same: the brigade, the art, the scripture. The singular Seraph is simply more grammatically correct.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:50:28 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on August 10, 2011, 02:46:35 PM

I don't see it that way at all. Locust from the Pit is the same card despite being generic. And the Seraphim card only depicts a single angel in the art. Nearly everything else about the two cards is the same: the brigade, the art, the scripture. The singular Seraph is simply more grammatically correct.

Actually, the the pairs that have the same art have different verses.

The Schaef · « **Reply #20 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:56:36 PM »

That's weird, I never realized they had flipped the verses. In any event, matching Scripture is not on the list of things to match cards; it's just another common thread among (most but apparently not all) reprints.

Bryon · « **Reply #21 on:** August 11, 2011, 12:42:48 AM »

Locusts from the Pit is the same card as
Locust from the Pit.

Plural doesn't count as a different card if the art is the same.

As for the more specific name (Seraph with Live Coal), I always assumed that the cards would be the same (just like Angel at Tomb and Angel at THE Tomb). I see the point raised by others about the name looking even more different, but I don't know if we need to allow those to be same. I thought Isaiah was plenty strong without the extra Seraph.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #22 on:** August 11, 2011, 08:43:18 AM »

It shouldnt be about whether it makes another card stronger or not...

I understand where you guys are coming from, however Seriphim and Seraph isnt close enough in my book to justify it being the same card due to the name.

The Schaef · « **Reply #23 on:** August 11, 2011, 08:53:59 AM »

Because of grammatical consistency?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #24 on:** August 11, 2011, 09:10:25 AM »

I personally don't think foreign grammar applies.

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Author Topic: Seraph/Seraphim confusion (Read 6207 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

The Schaef