Author Topic: Seraph/Seraphim confusion (Read 6206 times)

STAMP · « **Reply #25 on:** August 11, 2011, 02:26:32 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on August 11, 2011, 12:42:48 AM

I thought Isaiah was plenty strong without the extra Seraph.

I'm back. I'll never be happy about the crimes against ANB, but I'm back.

Maybe.

I'm 80% certain.

But also 15% doubtful.

What if I swear to never leave the game again, have lots of tournaments, and give loads of free cards to RLKs? Then could we have the ANB erratas removed?

lightningninja · « **Reply #26 on:** August 11, 2011, 02:38:55 PM »

Stamp, so you really just wanted to see green get a boost, eh not just ANB? I think your will is wavering.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #27 on:** August 11, 2011, 03:51:17 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on August 11, 2011, 08:53:59 AM

Because of grammatical consistency?

Schaef, Your gaming knowledge and hands on application abounds; however I dont see how you can consider these two cards the same. YES, the have the same artwork, and brigade; but different name and scripture verse.

For Gaming purposes there needs to be some errata given to say these two cards are the same.

Red · « **Reply #28 on:** August 11, 2011, 03:57:24 PM »

The art isn't the same. The centering and background along with color is different on seraph.

The Schaef · « **Reply #29 on:** August 11, 2011, 04:21:02 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on August 11, 2011, 03:51:17 PM

Schaef, Your gaming knowledge and hands on application abounds; however I dont see how you can consider these two cards the same. YES, the have the same artwork, and brigade; but different name and scripture verse.

Scripture is not listed as a criterion for tagging two cards as being the same, else the OT and NT Michael would both be allowed together.

And I have asked you why a minor grammatical difference makes these two inexorably different to you, when Locust/Locusts from the Pit, Bear/The Bear, and Angel at Tomb/... The Tomb are all the same cards, respectively.

Red · « **Reply #30 on:** August 11, 2011, 04:22:16 PM »

Hey I personally think other than in tombs case they should be different cards.

The Warrior · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2011, 04:34:10 PM »

Quote from: Red on August 11, 2011, 03:57:24 PM

The art isn't the same. The centering and background along with color is different on seraph.

by that logic the fact that the art is flipped on many of the the RoA(E) and FOOF(E) card combined with the brigade changes would mean they would be different card
(e.g. : Drawn sword
New
Old )

Quote from: The Schaef on August 11, 2011, 04:21:02 PM

And I have asked you why a minor grammatical difference makes these two inexorably different

a short addition to the REG could be made if needed. somthing to the effect of " card titles which differ only by the words A, An, or The(e.g. Angel at tomb/Angel at the tomb etc.) or by Singularity or Pluralty (e.g. Seraph.Seraphim, Locust/Locusts etc.) or are ruled by a Elder to be such are the same cards for deck building purposes"
But i think seraph/seraphim should be separate cards

The Schaef · « **Reply #32 on:** August 11, 2011, 04:52:22 PM »

I really don't understand why. It's an obvious reprint, and all that was done was to give it a new ability and fix (not change, FIX) the name to properly reflect the artwork. It's not like we're talking about Fourth Living Creature here.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #33 on:** August 12, 2011, 10:23:21 AM »

I dont think it should be considered the same card if it has a new ability.

The Schaef · « **Reply #34 on:** August 12, 2011, 10:47:13 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on August 12, 2011, 10:23:21 AM

I dont think it should be considered the same card if it has a new ability.

So Warriors Gabe and Kings Gabe are not the same card?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #35 on:** August 12, 2011, 11:42:35 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 11, 2011, 09:10:25 AM

I personally don't think foreign grammar applies.

So that's why you had two Son of Gods in your deck!

--------------

New question:

Can I have Seraphim and Serapher in the same deck?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #36 on:** August 12, 2011, 01:04:08 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on August 12, 2011, 11:42:35 AM

Can I have Seraphim and Seraphur in the same deck?

Added redemption puns make everything better.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #37 on:** August 12, 2011, 02:32:27 PM »

Only if you use Journey to Sweeden.

The Schaef · « **Reply #38 on:** August 12, 2011, 02:47:44 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 12, 2011, 02:32:27 PM

Only if you use Journey to Sweeden.

New Seraph art?

The Muppets: Pöpcørn

sepjazzwarrior · « **Reply #39 on:** August 13, 2011, 10:29:10 AM »

sorry im getting confused, which ones are all allowed in the same deck?

side note= for those that dont know there is another isaiah angel out there other than these 4: angel of His presence

Aelec Enitnel · « **Reply #40 on:** August 13, 2011, 12:37:17 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on August 12, 2011, 10:47:13 AM

Quote from: RTSmaniac on August 12, 2011, 10:23:21 AM
I dont think it should be considered the same card if it has a new ability.

So Warriors Gabe and Kings Gabe are not the same card?

Same art...

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #41 on:** August 13, 2011, 01:52:00 PM »

Quote from: Aelec Enitnel on August 13, 2011, 12:37:17 PM

Quote from: The Schaef on August 12, 2011, 10:47:13 AM
Quote from: RTSmaniac on August 12, 2011, 10:23:21 AM
I dont think it should be considered the same card if it has a new ability.

So Warriors Gabe and Kings Gabe are not the same card?

Same art...

Same copyright...

Bryon · « **Reply #42 on:** August 14, 2011, 12:32:27 AM »

If the ART is the same, and the TITLES are the same, then the cards are the same.

Note about ART: zooming and flipping and color value don't qualify as different art.
Note about TITLE: singular/plural/added specificity still count as same title <- this has been true since 1995 when Locust/Locusts were printed.

Can anyone find even one case where that is ruled differently?

The reference exchange on the Seraphim cards were to fix the error on the Warriors cards. The Warriors versions had each others' references.

Quote from: Bryon on August 11, 2011, 12:42:48 AM

Locusts from the Pit is the same card as
Locust from the Pit.

Plural doesn't count as a different card if the art is the same.

This is absolutely true. This will not change. Duplicates (with special abilities) will not be allowed in Type 1 decks of less than 50 cards.

Quote from: Bryon on August 11, 2011, 12:42:48 AM

As for the more specific name (Seraph with Live Coal), I always assumed that the cards would be the same (just like Angel at Tomb and Angel at THE Tomb).

I am still convinced that this is true, but am curious what the other elders think about this.

MitchRobStew · « **Reply #43 on:** August 14, 2011, 11:08:56 AM »

Going by this thread and rulings in the past. With Seraph and Seraphim being the same character for deck building rules. Shouldn't Seraph be listed as generic since Seraphim (band to green) is?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #44 on:** August 19, 2011, 02:47:42 PM »

So, can we get a final confirmation on this? If possible, can we get a quick list of which seraphs can all be in the same deck?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #45 on:** August 19, 2011, 02:51:36 PM »

Quote from: MitchRobStew on August 14, 2011, 11:08:56 AM

Going by this thread and rulings in the past. With Seraph and Seraphim being the same character for deck building rules. Shouldn't Seraph be listed as generic since Seraphim (band to green) is?

I believe so.

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 19, 2011, 02:47:42 PM

So, can we get a final confirmation on this? If possible, can we get a quick list of which seraphs can all be in the same deck?

I agree with Bryon that only one of the standing seraphs (band to green, band to prophet) and one of the flying seraphs (band to blue, with a live coal) should be allowed in the same deck. So you can choose one of each artwork, but not both of either artwork.

browarod · « **Reply #46 on:** August 19, 2011, 02:56:58 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 19, 2011, 02:51:36 PM

I agree with Bryon that only one of the standing seraphs (band to green, band to prophet) and one of the flying seraphs (band to blue, with a live coal) should be allowed in the same deck. So you can choose one of each artwork, but not both of either artwork.

So, just to confirm, I can have Seraph (band to green prophet) AND Seraph with a Live Coal AND Cherubim (RA2) in the same deck?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #47 on:** August 19, 2011, 03:04:45 PM »

Quote from: browarod on August 19, 2011, 02:56:58 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 19, 2011, 02:51:36 PM
I agree with Bryon that only one of the standing seraphs (band to green, band to prophet) and one of the flying seraphs (band to blue, with a live coal) should be allowed in the same deck. So you can choose one of each artwork, but not both of either artwork.
So, just to confirm, I can have Seraph (band to green prophet) AND Seraph with a Live Coal AND Cherubim (RA2) in the same deck?

Those are all for sure, yes.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #48 on:** August 19, 2011, 03:28:47 PM »

I think you should be able to have Mr. Coal and the blue bander in the same deck. I mean, are Joseph and Joseph the Carpenter considered the same character?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #49 on:** August 19, 2011, 03:41:42 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 19, 2011, 03:28:47 PM

I think you should be able to have Mr. Coal and the blue bander in the same deck. I mean, are Joseph and Joseph the Carpenter considered the same character?

No, but they don't have the same picture or reference (I know that the blue bander has a different reference on the card, but that was clearly an error).

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Author Topic: Seraph/Seraphim confusion (Read 6206 times)

The Schaef

The Schaef

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod