Author Topic: Table Talk (Read 13966 times)

Isildur · « **on:** April 19, 2011, 02:14:40 AM »

After seeing table talk pop up in the Defending Ethics thread I thought I would ask what is the Tourney definition of table talk and what are your guys opinions on table talk?

Master KChief · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2011, 02:19:38 AM »

im assuming this pertains to multi/draft as table talk is allowed in teams? i see nothing wrong with it, as multi is cutthroat and any information you leak could be detrimental to yourself.

CountFount · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2011, 07:44:12 AM »

Accept the culture. If you don't like table talk, don't play multiple-player. If you do accept table talk as 'that is part of the game' then you won't 'expect' to win and you can enjoy. Play once with Emjaybee and I and you too can be a backstabbing, lying, cutthroat having a blast!

It is more fun talking about how you got ambushed or did the ambushing than winning any way.

Gabe · « **Reply #3 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:17:41 AM »

It's true, any MP player game where CountFount and Emjaybee are both present will most likely be one of the funnest games of your life. For being old, those guys sure know how to party.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:18:52 AM »

Table talk should be banned for tournament play. When you've got to fight tooth and nail for every soul, getting screwed over because your opponents are conspiring against you can ruin your day.

Master KChief · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:21:36 AM »

thats just the nature of the beast. my suggestion is to play the quiet guy and not bring alot of attention to yourself, then silently go in for the kill.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:28:36 AM »

Quote from: Master KChief on April 19, 2011, 08:21:36 AM

thats just the nature of the beast. my suggestion is to play the quiet guy and not bring alot of attention to yourself, then silently go in for the kill.

It's kinda difficult to do that when you've got the reputation as the second best player in the area. I was in last place at the table and STILL got SWJ'd.

I'd love to be able to "not draw any attention to myself." I'm not even that good.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:55:54 AM »

Basically, I do not have any problem with table talk provided it is not being engaged in to gain a competitive advantage. I also recognize that some people prefer no chatter and have held back when asked. (Yes, I realize if I were more sensitive to others I wouldn't need to be asked.)

Games I am involved with tend to have a lot of table talk--including things like "If Justin is only behind by three LS I still consider him to be in the lead" and "A few dominants never hurt anyone especially if their last name begins with an 'A' or a 'V'." The deal is that all of this is joking around with experienced players and not intended to influence the play at hand The only exceptions are taking time in tournaments to teach someone how to play better and I only do that if the tournament is really low-level, the other players agree and it hurts me.

The best table talk ever: I am playing at Ohio Nats with one of SlugFencer's sons. He goes on to tell everyone at the table how he's not that good of a player and how he is only there because it meant a lot to his dad to be able to spend some time together and so on and so forth. It was really touching, and we all sort of believed him until he pulled some wicked combo and then started chuckling to himself.

Quote from: SomeKittens on April 19, 2011, 08:18:52 AM

Table talk should be banned for tournament play. When you've got to fight tooth and nail for every soul, getting screwed over because your opponents are conspiring against you can ruin your day.

Kittens, if the table talk you are used to solely consists of your opponents conspiring against you that stinks. Surprisingly the Alstad clan, Voigt pere and fils, and our visitors such as RDT and THE Isbel never need to conspire in order to mess me up. Maybe you should try to find a better class of MP opponents.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:04:48 AM »

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 07:44:12 AM

Accept the culture. If you don't like table talk, don't play multiple-player. If you do accept table talk as 'that is part of the game' then you won't 'expect' to win and you can enjoy. Play once with Emjaybee and I and you too can be a backstabbing, lying, cutthroat having a blast!

It is more fun talking about how you got ambushed or did the ambushing than winning any way.

Can you expand on the the "lying" part? That is a line that I choose not to cross, and in our playgroup a player that lies is not tolerated, but that's just our group. I know that we all have some evil cards in our decks, but those are being played by my evil characters, not me personally. But if I were to say something like "If you come after me I'll give you a lost soul", and then I DO stop them, how is this not a violation of God's word regarding lying? I told my brother I would do one thing, and then I did the opposite. And why not lie about how many lost souls I have redeemed, or if I have played Son of God yet, or whether or not I have a certain card in my deck/hand? I like to be "sneaky" as much as the next person, but it seems that lying would be against the rules of the game and of God.

CountFount · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:12:20 AM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on April 19, 2011, 09:04:48 AM

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 07:44:12 AM
Accept the culture. If you don't like table talk, don't play multiple-player. If you do accept table talk as 'that is part of the game' then you won't 'expect' to win and you can enjoy. Play once with Emjaybee and I and you too can be a backstabbing, lying, cutthroat having a blast!

It is more fun talking about how you got ambushed or did the ambushing than winning any way.

Can you expand on the the "lying" part? That is a line that I choose not to cross, and in our playgroup a player that lies is not tolerated, but that's just our group. I know that we all have some evil cards in our decks, but those are being played by my evil characters, not me personally. But if I were to say something like "If you come after me I'll give you a lost soul", and then I DO stop them, how is this not a violation of God's word regarding lying? I told my brother I would do one thing, and then I did the opposite. And why not lie about how many lost souls I have redeemed, or if I have played Son of God yet, or whether or not I have a certain card in my deck/hand? I like to be "sneaky" as much as the next person, but it seems that lying would be against the rules of the game and of God.

You are absolutely right about lying. I have tried over and over to convince EmJayBee83 of this point. He just persists in telling me that he "will work with me", Let's use "our" dominants on the other two, Did you know if you let me win I will give you all my ocean property in Oklahoma?, Gabe is not a terrorist he just doesn't know that a razor is a tool of "beauty", Justin A is a nice guy....things like that.

I want to play a game with you so you can have fun playing MP.

Gabe · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:13:45 AM »

*edit* insta-posted by an old guy. I must be getting REALLY slow.

I agree with your assessment and ethics. I'm 99.9% that CountFount does also.

CountFount isn't talking about lying to be deceitful. I believe he's referring to situations where he and MJB are at a MP table with someone who is a "better player" than them so they pretend to conspire to help each other and stop the "better player". In the end MJB was the first to break their "truce" and CountFount got left in the dust. Thus the "backstabbing, lying, cutthroat" comment ,that taken out of context doesn't seem like it has any place in a game centered around Christ, fun and fellowship.

CountFount · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:41:53 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on April 19, 2011, 09:13:45 AM

*edit* insta-posted by an old guy. I must be getting REALLY slow.

I agree with your assessment and ethics. I'm 99.9% that CountFount does also.

CountFount isn't talking about lying to be deceitful. I believe he's referring to situations where he and MJB are at a MP table with someone who is a "better player" than them so they pretend to conspire to help each other and stop the "better player". In the end MJB was the first to break their "truce" and CountFount got left in the dust. Thus the "backstabbing, lying, cutthroat" comment ,that taken out of context doesn't seem like it has any place in a game centered around Christ, fun and fellowship.

Amen

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:46:05 AM »

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 07:44:12 AM

Play once with Emjaybee and I and you too can be a backstabbing, lying, cutthroat having a blast!

Three things:

1) I am fairly certain that any "agreements" that existed between us in any "game" that we may or may not have "played" against each other existed solely in your imagination.

2) Sometimes a momma bird needs to push a little one out of the nest so he can learn to fly on his own. Although clearly not at my level, the Count needed to learn that he a capable player (in his own limited way) with no need to ride on my coat-tails. So any hypothetical backstabbing (see thing #1, above) was really for his own good--just like when the crows gave Dumbo a "magic feather" to give him confidence to fly. (I believe that is also why Gabe's nickname for CountFount is Dumbo.)

3) The Count also needs to learn the art of forgiveness and how to graciously accept an apology for something that never even happened to begin with (see thing #1, above). At our last T2-MP game together I did everything to try and make up for any imagined slight. In fact I tried to help the Count out by not forcing him to make any complicated decisions or to risk hurting his characters. Every single stinking time I made a RA against him, I gave him one of my ECs to block with. The fact that I did that out of the goodness of my heart and this is how CountFount repays me says all that needs to be said.

To stefferweffer: I agree with your statements on the ethics of lying. Just for background, the Count and I have been Redemption friends since Ohio Nats when he and his sons were exceedingly kind to me at lunch one day. All of this back and forth is just an example of a crotchety old man (the Count) and his younger rakish friend yelling "Stay off of my lawn" at each other.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:47:58 AM »

Thanks. In my experience, table talk is nothing more than "don't let him get his third soul" etc. I'd love to play a game where I'm not constantly harassed.

As to the "culture" comment: I don't like MP (in tournaments) as much as other styles. Problem is, it is the only chance I have to win...

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:51:52 AM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 19, 2011, 08:55:54 AM

The best table talk ever: I am playing at Ohio Nats with one of SlugFencer's sons. He goes on to tell everyone at the table how he's not that good of a player and how he is only there because it meant a lot to his dad to be able to spend some time together and so on and so forth. It was really touching, and we all sort of believed him until he pulled some wicked combo and then started chuckling to himself.

I remember that game. He started with the whole sweet little kid routine, and then proceeded to totally attack one of the players at the table into the ground, playing all his dominants on them. It was funny because it wasn't me.

Then in a later game that I played with the same guy, he pulled the same thing again, and that time I was the chosen one, and I got clobbered by him. Since I'd seen him do it before, and I knew it wasn't personal, I actually still found it funny, in spite of the fact that I lost that game badly.

Quote from: SomeKittens on April 19, 2011, 09:47:58 AM

I'd love to play a game where I'm not constantly harassed.

Just wait until you play at bigger tournaments like Regionals and Nationals. When you're a big fish in a small pond, people gang up on you. But then when you swim in the ocean suddenly no one pays any attention to you anymore

CountFount · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:53:14 AM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 19, 2011, 09:46:05 AM

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 07:44:12 AM
Play once with Emjaybee and I and you too can be a backstabbing, lying, cutthroat having a blast!
Three things:

1) I am fairly certain that any "agreements" that existed between us in any "game" that we may or may not have "played" against each other existed solely in your imagination.

2) Sometimes a momma bird needs to push a little one out of the nest so he can learn to fly on his own. Although clearly not at my level, the Count needed to learn that he a capable player (in his own limited way) with no need to ride on my coat-tails. So any hypothetical backstabbing (see thing #1, above) was really for his own good--just like when the crows gave Dumbo a "magic feather" to give him confidence to fly. (I believe that is also why Gabe's nickname for CountFount is Dumbo.)

3) The Count also needs to learn the art of forgiveness and how to graciously accept an apology for something that never even happened to begin with (see thing #1, above). At our last T2-MP game together I did everything to try and make up for any imagined slight. In fact I tried to help the Count out by not forcing him to make any complicated decisions or to risk hurting his characters. Every single stinking time I made a RA against him, I gave him one of my ECs to block with. The fact that I did that out of the goodness of my heart and this is how CountFount repays me says all that needs to be said.

To stefferweffer: I agree with your statements on the ethics of lying. Just for background, the Count and I have been Redemption friends since Ohio Nats when he and his sons were exceedingly kind to me at lunch one day. All of this back and forth is just an example of a crotchety old man (the Count) and his younger rakish friend yelling "Stay off of my lawn" at each other.

Hey everybody! EmJayBee83 says we are friends! You realize Matt, Friends don't let Friends play people from Iowa. Right?

Gabe · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:59:48 AM »

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 09:53:14 AM

Hey everybody! EmJayBee83 says we are friends! You realize Matt, Friends don't let Friends play people from Iowa. Right?

Don't let my reputation ruin your perspective of all Iowans. There are still a lot of nice people here.

CountFount · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2011, 10:11:05 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on April 19, 2011, 09:59:48 AM

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 09:53:14 AM
Hey everybody! EmJayBee83 says we are friends! You realize Matt, Friends don't let Friends play people from Iowa. Right?

Don't let my reputation ruin your respective of all Iowans. There are still a lot of nice people here.

Don't anybody believe Him....It's just Table Talk.

Red · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2011, 11:47:28 AM »

Now I wanna play some multi.... badly.

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2011, 11:54:56 AM »

DaClock, NWJosh, TJ and I all find that serious players really put a crimp in our multi game fun.

That's why we never let them join our reindeer games.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:07:10 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on April 19, 2011, 09:47:58 AM

Thanks. In my experience, table talk is nothing more than "don't let him get his third soul" etc.

This comment, I would have to rate as *legitimate* table talk although I typically say "This is his third" or "This is for the win if he's got the big two" or... "Justin can't get to #5 if you don't give him #1."

I have played in games where someone miscounted lost souls and gave a freebie as the third when everyone--including the blocker--knew the person getting the soul hadn't played SoG/NJ. From experience it is not very much fun to win simply because someone made a silly mistake.

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 09:53:14 AM

Hey everybody! EmJayBee83 says we are friends!

Burn!

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 09:12:20 AM

You are absolutely right about lying. I have tried over and over to convince EmJayBee83 of this point.

Some people just never learn. heh.

Count, we should organize a charity auction at Nationals where people bid to be able to play a T2-MP game against you, Rawrlolsauce!, and I. All of the moneys earned could go to fund next year's T2-Only travel support budget. We could guarantee them a good time.

Quote from: Gabe on April 19, 2011, 09:59:48 AM

Don't let my reputation ruin your perspective of all Iowans. There are still a lot of nice people here.

We don't hold it against you. After all Missy is nice enough for three people, so she cancels you out.

CountFount · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:19:30 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 19, 2011, 12:07:10 PM

Count, we should organize a charity auction at Nationals where people bid to be able to play a T2-MP game against you, Rawrlolsauce!, and I. All of the moneys earned could go to fund next year's T2-Only travel support budget. We could guarantee them a good time.

Absolutely! We could show them how to pick on one particular player (Um..Alan) and how much fun it is for you and I to eventually turn on each other and lose to that one particular player.

Or

We could place a bounty on your head! If they beat you and lose to me, they pay $20. If they beat you and me, they pay $40. If they lose to you and me and beat a particular friend of Missy's in Iowa, then Missy's "Friend" pays $60. Entrance fee to our table is at least $20. This money will help pay fees for anyone over 40 who comes to Nats. Thoughts?

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2011, 12:23:39 PM »

Quote from: CountFount on April 19, 2011, 12:19:30 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 19, 2011, 12:07:10 PM
Count, we should organize a charity auction at Nationals where people bid to be able to play a T2-MP game against you, Rawrlolsauce!, and I.

Absolutely! We could show them how to pick on one particular player (Um..Alan)

Alan: For the fourth time I convert a Proud Pharisee to white brigade.

MJB: For the fourth time I place Destructive Sin on the now heroic Proud Pharisee.

That was a fun game.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2011, 01:23:10 PM »

It's all good. I've totally changed my offense. Instead of using white I'm just relying on using provisions to let Aaron choose Idolaters as the blocker, right out of MJB's play book, so I don't need to worry about DS. I'm also going to start using Hard Hearted Religious Leaders (unlimited) instead of Proud Pharisees because then I don't have to worry about my SA being negated or revealing my hand, so you guys won't know I use multiple Son of Gods.

CountFount · « **Reply #24 on:** April 19, 2011, 02:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 19, 2011, 01:23:10 PM

then I don't have to worry about my SA being negated or revealing my hand, so you guys won't know I use multiple Son of Gods.

What is that! Some kinda 'you guys are so old and forgetful you won't notice' slam. **note to self fall on Alan at next tournament.**

News:

Author Topic: Table Talk (Read 13966 times)

Rawrlolsauce!