Author Topic: Dominants (Read 15864 times)

Minister Polarius · « **on:** February 15, 2010, 09:35:17 PM »

I feel the need to again rant about Dominants. Someone said on another thread that they were unaware of some problem or other, so I just want to make dang sure the PTB know how fed up a lot of us are with Dominants. Feel free to add your piece either in favor of or against Dominants.

They frustrate me so much, because Redemption has fantastic dynamics. In my opinion, better than even MTG. But these cards (most SoG, NJ, AotL and CM) take SO much strategy completely out of the game it's infuriating. Without those four cards, the most (or maybe second-most now) complained about archetype would entirely disappear, and strategy would return to T1. I just can't even really articulate how much I hate those four dominants, and I'm not a fan of FA or Burial either.

Master KChief · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:41:04 PM »

dominants do stink. please ban them.

and the only area mtg is inferior to in regards to other card games is the mana mechanic. otherwise, its pretty stellar everywhere else.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #2 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:42:41 PM »

I agree, but that's kind of like saying that a water supply is pure except for the anthrax.

Master KChief · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:49:13 PM »

i wouldnt compare the mana problem in mtg to anthrax in a water supply...more times than not i dont get mana screwed or mana flooded, but still enough to be a concern to many. but the mulligan also helps alleviate those problems...something redemption could really use.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:50:33 PM »

But not as much as it needs to be rid of Dominants.

Master KChief · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:52:51 PM »

so true, dominants are on par with the power nine.

Sean · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:57:13 PM »

The jewel of Redemption is the initiative system. Anything that throws a wrench into that is detrimental to the game as far as I'm concerned. Christian Martyr, Angel of the Lord, and Grapes of Wrath each fall into this category.

D-man · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:01:24 PM »

I support this thread.

Dominants, in particular NJ and SoG, need some serious nerfing. There is nothing right now to keep people from filling 1/5 of their deck spaces with Dominants, and most regularly do. I'm not sure I support an all-out ban (particularly on SoG), but there needs to be some serious toning down.

Master KChief · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:01:43 PM »

Quote from: Sean on February 15, 2010, 09:57:13 PM

The jewel of Redemption is the initiative system. Anything that throws a wrench into that is detrimental to the game as far as I'm concerned. Christian Martyr, Angel of the Lord, and Grapes of Wrath each fall into this category.

good point, probably why cbn battle winners are detrimental to the game as well.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:02:47 PM »

When there is no reason not to use a card, I think it is pretty broken.

Master KChief · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:08:15 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 15, 2010, 10:02:47 PM

When there is no reason not to use a card, I think it is pretty broken.

couldnt have said it better.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:17:00 PM »

All dominants except Doubt, Mayhem, and Glory of the Lord fall into this category, as well as Captured Ark, Unholy Writ, Wall of Protection, and maybe even Uzzah or The Amalekite's Slave. Falling Away and Guardian are the only other cards even close to balanced on the dominant side.

Just my thoughts.

Master KChief · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:18:18 PM »

doubt?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:20:16 PM »

Wut? I do not Doubt any of my comments. There is no Doubt card. Lies.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:23:59 PM »

Quote from: D-man on February 15, 2010, 10:01:24 PM

Dominants, in particular NJ and SoG, need some serious nerfing....I'm not sure I support an all-out ban (particularly on SoG), but there needs to be some serious toning down.

I agree that dominants shouldn't be banned. However, I love the idea from another thread about an artifact that someone could put into their deck that would discard itself to "If owner has not played any dominants this game, then remove all dominants in all draw piles, discard piles, and hands from the game".

This would make people think twice about using up 10 slots in their deck with cards that COULD all disappear and give their opponent a big advantage.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:26:35 PM »

I would want such a card banned before any dominant is ever banned.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #16 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:35:05 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 15, 2010, 10:26:35 PM

I would want such a card banned before any dominant is ever banned.

Assuming that you're concerned about what I'm guessing you're concerned about. I forgot an important part of the special ability. I edited my post to add that back in

"If owner has not played any dominants this game, then discard this artifact to remove all dominants from all players hands, draw piles, and discard piles."

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:36:39 PM »

That made it even more broken.

Shofarblower · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:43:27 PM »

I have to say that I agree that dominants are a big annoyance in the game. I hate when I lose a game 2-5 and the only rescue made by me was with SoG NJ. I know that isn't the general idea behind this thread but I get annoyed at that. It is like saying "I didn't REALLY rescue a single soul". I will say that I like Redemptions "no banned cards" way of thinking. I think they should just make a lost soul that nerfs all Dominants until rescued. That would make it impossible for an opponent to force you to rescue it unless they used Jacob's Ladder.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:45:55 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 15, 2010, 10:36:39 PM

That made it even more broken.

OK, I thought you were worried about someone using all their doms early and then playing this to get rid of all their opponents (which would not work with the full wording). But obviously you are seeing something I am not. How would this be broken?

Quote from: Shofarblower on February 15, 2010, 10:43:27 PM

I think they should just make a lost soul that nerfs all Dominants until rescued.

This is also a great idea

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:51:41 PM »

If you successfully pull off that artifact, and you have even an average deckbuild, I find it hard to foresee a situation where you would lose. I would use it in every deck I build. And if I did not, then I better be using a speed deck, because that's the only semi-viable counter.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:54:20 PM »

I support this thread, and I believe that dominants really truly do need serious counters. Some top-of-my-head ideas:

TC Enh.
"Place this card in a player's territory. During a battle with that player, protect all characters from dominants. Cannot be removed by an opponent."

Good Dominant (perhaps ironic (and probably cliche))
"Search deck for Lampstand of the Sanctuary and place it in your good temple or tabernacle. Place this card on Lampstand of the Sanctuary. That artifact cannot be discarded, and may be held in that temple regardless of other artifacts in it."

Evil card of some sort (Dominant?

)
"Search the draw piles of all players. Take up to three cards besides Lost Souls that appear in each player's deck and discard all versions of them from the players' decks."

Lost Soul
"No dominants may be played while this Lost Soul is in play."

Sean · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:57:21 PM »

I know, let's just make every card from here on out a dominant. Then we can just play slap-jack instead.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:58:55 PM »

This thread is why Type NW was created. good times, good times.

Godspeed,
Mike

Ironica · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2010, 11:11:56 PM »

Here's some ways to stop the Doms that people keep complaining about:

SOG/NJ:
1) discard SOG from deck/hand and then NJ will be useless (there's multiple ways to do this and Angel At The Tomb is quite rare to find in decks to worry about it)
2) Altar Of Ahaz (stops them cold (especially with a great defense/auto-blocks))
3) The two lost souls that can't be rescued by them (*/4 and NT)

Angel Of The Lord/Christian Martyr
1) Same as number one above
2) Band
3) Healing Cards

DON:
1) Same as above
2) Lampstand
3) Use another artifact that you know are DON magnets to keep your other ones safe

Burial:
1) Same as above
2) Lampstand
3) Anti-burial LS

For all the other ones, they are not that big of deal (since there are plenty of cards that will do basically the same thing).

News:

Author Topic: Dominants (Read 15864 times)

Ironica