Author Topic: Redemption  (Read 3800 times)

Offline I am Knot a Blonde!

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Redemption
« on: August 28, 2012, 11:50:50 PM »
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PLEASE READ: This is not a hate thread, nor is it a thread "trashing redemption or rob anderson". This thread's complete purpose is to do one thing. Think of ideas on how to make Redemption better. That's it. Now, of course in order to do this we will have to point out the weak spots in Redemption, so DO NOT upset if the discussion includes talking about game rules, mechanics, etc that are believed by the individual to be unfair, lame, or whatever.  I feel that it is time for the Redemption community to face the fact, if they do not know already, that Redemption is not perfect. And it is here, in this thread that I would like to discuss what are the main flaws of Redemption, and how they could be fixed. This is completely Theoretical. I just thought it would be interesting to see what people say.


Warrior_Monk

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 12:02:39 AM »
+3
Split up the elder faction. Top cut. Get more players. Redemption Online. Various card creation ideas such as Territory Class heroes and battlefields. Sideboard with 2/3. Mulligans.

Just some options.

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 12:04:18 AM »
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As I mentioned in the other thread,

Dedicated in-house artists to keep the style and quality of card art consistent.

Offline I am Knot a Blonde!

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 12:04:58 AM »
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Split up the elder faction. Top cut. Get more players. Redemption Online. Various card creation ideas such as Territory Class heroes and battlefields. Sideboard with 2/3. Mulligans.

Just some options.

what do you mean by "sideboard with 2/3."? I know what a sideboard is, but what is the 2/3 in reference to?

Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 12:07:53 AM »
+1
Split up the elder faction. Top cut. Get more players. Redemption Online. Various card creation ideas such as Territory Class heroes and battlefields. Sideboard with 2/3. Mulligans.

Just some options.

what do you mean by "sideboard with 2/3."? I know what a sideboard is, but what is the 2/3 in reference to?

Best 2 out of 3 games. I think sideboard with 2/3 is probably one of the best things Redemption could implement to improve gameplay. I spent easily 6 hours today making offenses and defenses out of every possible theme I could make a full offense or defense out of. Strong strategies are countered by a variety of Fortresses, Artifacts, Sites, and Territory Class Enhancements. Side board provides interesting 2nd/3rd games even if the first was a blowout.

Kirk
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Offline I am Knot a Blonde!

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2012, 12:11:27 AM »
-1
Split up the elder faction. Top cut. Get more players. Redemption Online. Various card creation ideas such as Territory Class heroes and battlefields. Sideboard with 2/3. Mulligans.

Just some options.

what do you mean by "sideboard with 2/3."? I know what a sideboard is, but what is the 2/3 in reference to?

Best 2 out of 3 games. I think sideboard with 2/3 is probably one of the best things Redemption could implement to improve gameplay. I spent easily 6 hours today making offenses and defenses out of every possible theme I could make a full offense or defense out of. Strong strategies are countered by a variety of Fortresses, Artifacts, Sites, and Territory Class Enhancements. Side board provides interesting 2nd/3rd games even if the first was a blowout.

Kirk

Yeah, but the thing is is that Games already take so long to complete. Would it have to be like first to 3? You would probably have to get ride of New Jerasulm Dominant in that case.

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 12:16:46 AM »
+3
I want faster rule fixes as well as a better method of bringing rulings to the masses.

A REG that is updated regularly would work great. Hopefully the new rulebook will help remedy this issue.

I'm fairly happy with much of redemption, although there are a few things I'd like to see done in the cards themselves (Territory Class Characters for example) I still think the playtesters are doing a fairly good job on that front.

I would love best 2/3 matches, however in T2 it would make for horrendously long matches.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2012, 03:34:40 AM »
+8
1. Split Elders into their constituent parts. Anyone mature enough to be an elder shouldn't have hurt feelings about not being every kind of PTB after the split.

2. Get rid of the REG or update it continuously.
2b. Move the database-type stuff to a different document/website. The REG should be very short and only encompass definitions, lists and rules.

3. Total homogeneity across regions (or, writing the unwritten rules).

4. Redemption Online. We're using a decade-old program that hasn't been adequate for most of that decade, along with various other hoops to be jumped through--such as a security breach--in order to play online. If you're afraid of losing profits, charge for it; I'd definitely pay to get a lobby, matchmaking system, and fully-functional engine.

5. Do something about the utter dominance of aggro decks in T1. We've been taking positive steps in that direction for a long time (with a few steps back under the oak) but we have a long way to go until anything but aggro is able to win Natz.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline I am Knot a Blonde!

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2012, 11:49:23 AM »
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1. Split Elders into their constituent parts. Anyone mature enough to be an elder shouldn't have hurt feelings about not being every kind of PTB after the split.

2. Get rid of the REG or update it continuously.
2b. Move the database-type stuff to a different document/website. The REG should be very short and only encompass definitions, lists and rules.

3. Total homogeneity across regions (or, writing the unwritten rules).

4. Redemption Online. We're using a decade-old program that hasn't been adequate for most of that decade, along with various other hoops to be jumped through--such as a security breach--in order to play online. If you're afraid of losing profits, charge for it; I'd definitely pay to get a lobby, matchmaking system, and fully-functional engine.

5. Do something about the utter dominance of aggro decks in T1. We've been taking positive steps in that direction for a long time (with a few steps back under the oak) but we have a long way to go until anything but aggro is able to win Natz.
Agreed.

Offline lp670sv

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2012, 05:43:56 PM »
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2. Get rid of the REG or update it continuously.
2b. Move the database-type stuff to a different document/website. The REG should be very short and only encompass definitions, lists and rules.

4. Redemption Online. We're using a decade-old program that hasn't been adequate for most of that decade, along with various other hoops to be jumped through--such as a security breach--in order to play online. If you're afraid of losing profits, charge for it; I'd definitely pay to get a lobby, matchmaking system, and fully-functional engine.

STOP READING MY PROJECT NOTES

Offline New Raven BR

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2012, 10:31:22 PM »
-1
Redemption online needs more ways to connect, not just hamachi, Redemption Connect is long overdue and i know the person started it is in college and i think someone needs to step up, pick up the slack, and continue where the previous person left off, and RTS needs choices for in game skins and such for the  game, and i feel for online tournaments, people should be able to be given a choice on how they would like to play, not be required to use RTS with hamachi, but still have RTS with hamachi be optional rather then required. im sorry im stomping on several people's toes who do use them, its just some people like myself find it very difficult to be able to join without having to use RTS with hamachi let alone play an actual online game with others.
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Offline lp670sv

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 11:02:21 PM »
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Sure just give me two more Java developers and a small starting budget and we'll get this knocked out in 2 months.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2012, 12:03:55 AM »
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Sure just give me two more Java developers and a small starting budget and we'll get this knocked out in 2 months.
Ever thought to try Kickstarter? Solves the budget problem.

But 2 months? O_O I thought you said it'd take a load of time...or is this just a shiny RTS and not the full blown Redemption Online?


Offline lp670sv

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2012, 08:17:38 AM »
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Sure just give me two more Java developers and a small starting budget and we'll get this knocked out in 2 months.
Ever thought to try Kickstarter? Solves the budget problem.

But 2 months? O_O I thought you said it'd take a load of time...or is this just a shiny RTS and not the full blown Redemption Online?
progress has been madw since i said that and if i ha two more people working on it with me it go much faster

Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2012, 11:02:08 AM »
+1
How much money are you talking about? If you came up w an estimate players (and maybe Cactus itself) could chip in to help.

Also, is there anyone else on the boards who knows Java?

Kirk
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Offline Sean

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2012, 11:27:07 AM »
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Wasn't there a thread about this exact same topic a week  or so ago?
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2012, 12:16:13 PM »
+1
1. Split Elders into their constituent parts. Anyone mature enough to be an elder shouldn't have hurt feelings about not being every kind of PTB after the split.

If this happens I would be happy to be nominated for a proofreading team.  (I might even be convinced to head up the team if my arm were twisted. :) )
Final ANB errata: Return player to game.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2012, 01:37:08 PM »
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Wasn't there a thread about this exact same topic a week  or so ago?
That was specifically about the dividing the Elders into different functions, and didn't pertain to the game itself.

Offline lp670sv

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2012, 01:41:11 PM »
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How much money are you talking about? If you came up w an estimate players (and maybe Cactus itself) could chip in to help.

Also, is there anyone else on the boards who knows Java?

Kirk

Enough to pay two fill time Java developers, as well as license the cards and mechanics of Redemption.

Offline Maynid

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 01:50:53 PM »
+2
On a different note, I wonder about changing how the distribution of rare/ultra-rare and otherwise powerful cards works.  It appears that most Redemption players have access to most of these types of cards, which may be a partial reason why we have a glut of similar decks topping the field.  If they increased the number of different rare/UR in each expansion and reduced the print run, players might be somewhat forced to develop different deck types because of more limited access to more powerful cards.  I, for one, would like to see a return to rarity distribution in expansions - powerful cards like Mayhem/GoW should be less available than the rest of the cards in an expansion.

Offline Drrek

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2012, 02:07:40 PM »
+2
On a different note, I wonder about changing how the distribution of rare/ultra-rare and otherwise powerful cards works.  It appears that most Redemption players have access to most of these types of cards, which may be a partial reason why we have a glut of similar decks topping the field.  If they increased the number of different rare/UR in each expansion and reduced the print run, players might be somewhat forced to develop different deck types because of more limited access to more powerful cards.  I, for one, would like to see a return to rarity distribution in expansions - powerful cards like Mayhem/GoW should be less available than the rest of the cards in an expansion.

If we make the more powerful cards more rare again, it won't change the fact that we'll have similar decks at the top, because those competitive and involved in the game enough to finish at the top, will also be the ones that go out of their way to make sure they have these cards.  The only decks it will hurt are those who do not have as much experience or resources.  I do, however, think re-introducing rarity could be a good thing, because it could make people trade cards more frequently to get the ones they want.
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Offline New Raven BR

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2012, 02:07:04 AM »
+1
Redemption online needs more ways to connect, not just hamachi, Redemption Connect is long overdue and i know the person started it is in college and i think someone needs to step up, pick up the slack, and continue where the previous person left off, and RTS needs choices for in game skins and such for the  game, and i feel for online tournaments, people should be able to be given a choice on how they would like to play, not be required to use RTS with hamachi, but still have RTS with hamachi be optional rather then required. im sorry im stomping on several people's toes who do use them, its just some people like myself find it very difficult to be able to join without having to use RTS with hamachi let alone play an actual online game with others.
i feel the need to explain what im talking about so others will understand my situation, so here it goes; usually its required for players to use hamachi with RTS to connect and play on ROOT. now here's where my problem comes in; at one point i used rts and hamachi but one day hamachi stopped working for me and i was unable to sign in, and adding to it, my dad has told me more then one occasion that hamachi is a "hacker's playground" EVEN though i've told him that it was under protected networks, theres no use in convincing him otherwise which has limited me to instant message games and games in person, til Redemption Connect is up and running which will be longer then expected. now you see my issue and please understand why i said what i said in case there happens to be other players who are in the same position as im in
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2012, 10:04:58 AM »
+3
On a different note, I wonder about changing how the distribution of rare/ultra-rare and otherwise powerful cards works.  It appears that most Redemption players have access to most of these types of cards, which may be a partial reason why we have a glut of similar decks topping the field.
IMO, this is one of the strengths of Redemption compared to other games. Cactus has done a great job keeping the average card price down (through reprints and what have you). As such, no player is locked out of being competitive because he/she doesn't have access to the cards. This is a "Very Good Thing"(tm).

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2012, 07:24:10 PM »
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Also, is there anyone else on the boards who knows Java?

I know a bit of Java, I took programming in High School (mostly C++ and such) and I took a couple of first year university programming courses (in Java), also I have at least 2 friends that are getting programming degrees. But I haven't programmed for a few years (besides a little computational physics but that was in a vastly different language) so I probably wouldn't be much help, but I would be willing to put some time into it.

Although my first goal as far as improving redemption is to clear up confusion in rules.
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Offline Drrek

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Re: Redemption
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2012, 07:32:04 PM »
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Also, is there anyone else on the boards who knows Java?


I'm a Sophomore Computer science major, and Java is the language I know the best, but I'm by no means an expert.
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