Author Topic: Meta Defense  (Read 1803 times)

Offline jbeers285

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Meta Defense
« on: August 05, 2013, 02:48:22 PM »
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I know the meta defense right now is based around 4 cards but where do you see it going from there?

Assumed 4 meta defense cards
Foreign Wives
Emp Vit
Sorrow of Mary
Scattered
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2013, 03:06:13 PM »
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According to Redemption Metagaming, it's going to have a lot of Pharisees.

Offline Red

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2013, 03:11:21 PM »
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We don't have a Meta Defense anymore. 8 card defense is practically dead.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2013, 03:18:48 PM »
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Canaanites, Magicians, and Pharisees.

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 03:23:12 PM »
+1
We don't have a Meta Defense anymore. 8 card defense is practically dead.

There will always be a meta defense. It has nothing to do with the amount of cards contained in such defenses.

Canaanites...

I'm curious what the draw of Canaanites as a viable defense is.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 03:44:23 PM »
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According to Redemption Metagaming, it's going to have a lot of Pharisees.

I sort of agree. But I think that it's not just Pharisees, but rather gray as a whole (Pharisees and non-Pharisees) that will see a lot of play. I see a pretty common defense going along these lines:

Foreign Wives
Scribe
Emperor Vitellius
Emperor Tiberius
Sabbath Breaker
Pharisees (1/3 Generic)
Proud Pharisee
The Entrapping Pharisee

So only half of the defense (including Scribe) is really part of a true Pharisees defense, but I think that the Emperors, SB and FW are much better choices than any of the other Pharisees (Hard Hearted Religious Leaders, Stone Throwers, Saul, or more than one of the three generic variants).

I also expect a lot of offenses with King David to ignore 3 of those characters. What will be interesting is if people throw in Nicodemus just to ignore 3 of the others (and get initiative vs. the rest except Sabbath Breaker)...doubtful, but I think that would be an epic anti-meta choice for anyone who is so daring.

Otherwise, I think Magicians and Babylonians will be the next two popular defenses. I'm not a believer in Canaanites for T1, as Westy/Olijar said they are very predictable. They also have zero chance of beating any decks with angel support, and they just don't have enough good character abilities outside of Woman of Thebez and Abimelech to do much good. Magicians have tons of tricks up their sleeves (pun intended) and are great at stalling to complement a solid but perhaps a bit slower offense. And Babylonians if played right can be downright vicious. Assyrians I believe are outclassed by their Pale Green counterparts in Magicians, Egyptians aren't good at too much outside of speed and some stall blocks (and are probably outclassed in the meta by Herods, who are much better vs. Disciples). Herods will be another good choice, but will be tripped up by King David. I could see Kings of Judah being a dark horse choice, but they would also have serious problems with King David. Demons still need a bit more help to be viable outside of a supporting role.

Then again, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I'm not a T1 player, and I won't be at Nats. But I'm just telling it as I sees it.
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 04:20:58 PM »
+1
Quote
They also have zero chance of beating any decks with angel support, and they just don't have enough good character abilities outside of Woman of Thebez and Abimelech to do much good.

Wow I don't know what cards you are leaving out of your defenses... Canaan takes out supporting angels and Lot's Wife and Gib Delegates have great abilities. Given the prevalence of gold heroes used in the meta (especially FBN bands with Simeon and/or Moses), Sisera is a strong play. Let's not forget Foreign Wives is Canaanite as well. I do think the best T1 Canaanite defenses won't be purely Canaanites but may include some Philistines or Antiochus as well. I am always a big proponent of black due to their strong negates. :)

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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 06:24:33 PM »
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According to Redemption Metagaming, it's going to have a lot of Pharisees.

I sort of agree. But I think that it's not just Pharisees, but rather gray as a whole (Pharisees and non-Pharisees) that will see a lot of play. I see a pretty common defense going along these lines:

Foreign Wives
Scribe
Emperor Vitellius
Emperor Tiberius
Sabbath Breaker
Pharisees (1/3 Generic)
Proud Pharisee
The Entrapping Pharisee

So only half of the defense (including Scribe) is really part of a true Pharisees defense, but I think that the Emperors, SB and FW are much better choices than any of the other Pharisees (Hard Hearted Religious Leaders, Stone Throwers, Saul, or more than one of the three generic variants).

I also expect a lot of offenses with King David to ignore 3 of those characters. What will be interesting is if people throw in Nicodemus just to ignore 3 of the others (and get initiative vs. the rest except Sabbath Breaker)...doubtful, but I think that would be an epic anti-meta choice for anyone who is so daring.

Otherwise, I think Magicians and Babylonians will be the next two popular defenses. I'm not a believer in Canaanites for T1, as Westy/Olijar said they are very predictable. They also have zero chance of beating any decks with angel support, and they just don't have enough good character abilities outside of Woman of Thebez and Abimelech to do much good. Magicians have tons of tricks up their sleeves (pun intended) and are great at stalling to complement a solid but perhaps a bit slower offense. And Babylonians if played right can be downright vicious. Assyrians I believe are outclassed by their Pale Green counterparts in Magicians, Egyptians aren't good at too much outside of speed and some stall blocks (and are probably outclassed in the meta by Herods, who are much better vs. Disciples). Herods will be another good choice, but will be tripped up by King David. I could see Kings of Judah being a dark horse choice, but they would also have serious problems with King David. Demons still need a bit more help to be viable outside of a supporting role.

Then again, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I'm not a T1 player, and I won't be at Nats. But I'm just telling it as I sees it.

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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Meta Defense
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 06:32:41 PM »
+4
Gathered Nicodemus banded to King David ftw! 8)
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