Author Topic: Hero Stealing/Sniping (Read 9412 times)

Professoralstad · « **on:** March 03, 2010, 01:07:13 PM »

So I just realized a fairly effective way to steal/snipe your opponent's heroes after finding a TexP card yesterday that I never thought much about before:

1. Capture a hero that you would like to steal using your favorite method (as long as it results in the hero going to Raider's Camp).
2. On your next turn, RA with Judah, and exchange for that hero. You now have permanent control of your opponent's hero.
3. On your opponent's next turn, release Judah.
4. Repeat as desired.

Judah
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 9 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may exchange Judah with a captured Hero, or with Joseph or Benjamin from your discard pile. • Attributes: Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 44:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

STAMP · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2010, 01:10:51 PM »

You could also do this with captured heroes in LoB. A captured hero is a captured hero regardless of location in play.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2010, 01:18:28 PM »

I know...but it's harder to complete steps 3 and 4 that way. I had always thought of targeting an opponent's hero in LoB, but RC makes it much better.

STAMP · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2010, 01:19:07 PM »

Very true.

Also, if it's a hero that isn't necessarily one you want but is one that is giving you troubles, you could have some fun by setting it aside with something like The Lord Fights for You, 4th Living Creature, Protection of Jerusalem, Passover or Presented Before the Lord.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2010, 01:31:35 PM »

This would take quite a while...but with a large enough defense it could work.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2010, 02:12:45 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 03, 2010, 01:18:28 PM

I know...but it's harder to complete steps 3 and 4 that way. I had always thought of targeting an opponent's hero in LoB, but RC makes it much better.

IAredemption Makes it pretty easy, though RC makes it very easy.

Tracer Burnout · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:03:21 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 03, 2010, 01:07:13 PM

So I just realized a fairly effective way to steal/snipe your opponent's heroes after finding a TexP card yesterday that I never thought much about before:

1. Capture a hero that you would like to steal using your favorite method (as long as it results in the hero going to Raider's Camp).
2. On your next turn, RA with Judah, and exchange for that hero. You now have permanent control of your opponent's hero.
3. On your opponent's next turn, release Judah.
4. Repeat as desired.

Judah
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 9 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may exchange Judah with a captured Hero, or with Joseph or Benjamin from your discard pile. • Attributes: Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 44:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

I like the idea of this but after it is exchanged then isn't this character now in battle? If so, then you may not have enhancements to play on him = discarding = him getting his hero back right?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:06:35 AM »

You know...something doesn't seem right to me. Why do you end up with both heroes? If the ownership of the previously captured card changes to you when you switch, then wouldn't the ownership of Judah also switch to the opponent? If not, we should probably change some rules.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:10:45 AM »

Ownership of a card never changes. Control of a card can change. Since RC says return to owner's territory, then Judah should return to my control.

Quote from: Tracer Burnout on March 09, 2010, 11:03:21 AM

I like the idea of this but after it is exchanged then isn't this character now in battle? If so, then you may not have enhancements to play on him = discarding = him getting his hero back right?

Indeed. Unless it's a hero you do have enhancements for, or a nice, big FBTN hero. I most recently performed this operation on my opponent's Moses, and the only response he had was Christian Martyr.

crustpope · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:14:08 AM »

Yes but after the battle cards return to their owners territories. IMO if you put Your Judah goes into battle, it switches with opponents hero in RC. You make RA with opponents Hero, then after that Opponents hero returns to Opponents Territory, not yours. It would be like a sidebattle where I controll opponents EC. After battle all cards return to their owners.

Ashpenaz states that you controlled the captured Charachter as an EC from that point on, but Juday says nothing about retaining control of the hero after battle.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:23:59 AM »

Quote from: REG>Instant Abilities>Search, Reveal, or Exchange>Default conditions

The duration of an exchange of cards is permanent unless stated otherwise.

Nothing on Judah states otherwise.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:26:03 AM »

Quote from: crustpope on March 09, 2010, 11:14:08 AM

IMO if you put Your Judah goes into battle, it switches with opponents hero in RC. You make RA with opponents Hero, then after that Opponents hero returns to Opponents Territory, not yours.

This is what I was thinking.

You know, I am very confused about the definition of ownership. I mean, it has been said that own = permanent control, but it seems like many do not agree with this (me inluded). I think "own" should mean that the card is in your physical sleeve. The reason it is important is because we consider "yours" to mean owned by you and controlled by you. I personally think a distinction should be (if it has not already been) made between ownership, temporary control, and permanent control (if such a thing should even exist).

Professoralstad · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:27:57 AM »

Quote from: REG>Glossary of Terms

Owner

When the special ability of a card refers to the owner, it means the player from whose deck the card was drawn.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:28:45 AM »

Well I'm just plumb confused...

3-Liner And Bags Of Chips · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:38:49 AM »

This officially is soooo broken. I wanna make a deck around this now...

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:51:59 AM »

So...ownership never changes? But permanent control does? And "your" requires ownership?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #16 on:** March 09, 2010, 11:58:37 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 09, 2010, 11:51:59 AM

So...ownership never changes? But permanent control does? And "your" requires ownership?

Yes. I always own the cards I bring to the tournament. However, my opponent can temporarily control my cards, or even permanently if an exchange allows it. But he can never target a card I own with a card that says "your", according to the rules, where your=own and control.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:09:44 PM »

So, my opponent cannot use the Demon Discarder Lost Soul to discard a Seven Wicked Spirits which has been exchanged into his territory?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:15:18 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 09, 2010, 12:09:44 PM

So, my opponent cannot use the Demon Discarder Lost Soul to discard a Seven Wicked Spirits which has been exchanged into his territory?

Correct.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:17:06 PM »

Does no one contradict this? I'm ecstatic if this is the case, but it probably means that I and perhaps a few others have been playing a few things slightly wrong.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:20:29 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 09, 2010, 12:17:06 PM

Does no one contradict this? I'm ecstatic if this is the case, but it probably means that I and perhaps a few others have been playing a few things slightly wrong.

No one will if they know the rules.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:22:41 PM »

I think for awhile there was a myth that exchange (like with SWS) somehow changed ownership, but there is nothing in the REG that supports that, and there is something that contradicts it (the definition of owner). So feel free to be ecstatic.

D-man · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2010, 12:45:01 PM »

Quote from: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on March 09, 2010, 11:38:49 AM

This officially is soooo broken. I wanna make a deck around this now...

Not really. If your opponent is able to get all of your heroes into Raider's Camp in the first place, then you've already got problems.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2010, 01:13:23 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 09, 2010, 12:20:29 PM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 09, 2010, 12:17:06 PM
Does no one contradict this? I'm ecstatic if this is the case, but it probably means that I and perhaps a few others have been playing a few things slightly wrong.
No one will if they know the rules.

...or read through the rather long thread on Magic Charms.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2010, 02:35:27 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 09, 2010, 12:22:41 PM

I think for awhile there was a myth that exchange (like with SWS) somehow changed ownership, but there is nothing in the REG that supports that, and there is something that contradicts it (the definition of owner). So feel free to be ecstatic.

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Author Topic: Hero Stealing/Sniping (Read 9412 times)

Tracer Burnout