Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Strategies and Combos => Topic started by: Professoralstad on March 03, 2010, 01:07:13 PM
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So I just realized a fairly effective way to steal/snipe your opponent's heroes after finding a TexP card yesterday that I never thought much about before:
1. Capture a hero that you would like to steal using your favorite method (as long as it results in the hero going to Raider's Camp).
2. On your next turn, RA with Judah, and exchange for that hero. You now have permanent control of your opponent's hero.
3. On your opponent's next turn, release Judah.
4. Repeat as desired.
Judah
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 9 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may exchange Judah with a captured Hero, or with Joseph or Benjamin from your discard pile. • Attributes: Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 44:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
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You could also do this with captured heroes in LoB. A captured hero is a captured hero regardless of location in play.
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I know...but it's harder to complete steps 3 and 4 that way. I had always thought of targeting an opponent's hero in LoB, but RC makes it much better.
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Very true. :)
Also, if it's a hero that isn't necessarily one you want but is one that is giving you troubles, you could have some fun by setting it aside with something like The Lord Fights for You, 4th Living Creature, Protection of Jerusalem, Passover or Presented Before the Lord. ;)
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This would take quite a while...but with a large enough defense it could work.
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I know...but it's harder to complete steps 3 and 4 that way. I had always thought of targeting an opponent's hero in LoB, but RC makes it much better.
IAredemption Makes it pretty easy, though RC makes it very easy.
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So I just realized a fairly effective way to steal/snipe your opponent's heroes after finding a TexP card yesterday that I never thought much about before:
1. Capture a hero that you would like to steal using your favorite method (as long as it results in the hero going to Raider's Camp).
2. On your next turn, RA with Judah, and exchange for that hero. You now have permanent control of your opponent's hero.
3. On your opponent's next turn, release Judah.
4. Repeat as desired.
Judah
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 9 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may exchange Judah with a captured Hero, or with Joseph or Benjamin from your discard pile. • Attributes: Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, Son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 44:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
I like the idea of this but after it is exchanged then isn't this character now in battle? If so, then you may not have enhancements to play on him = discarding = him getting his hero back right?
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You know...something doesn't seem right to me. Why do you end up with both heroes? If the ownership of the previously captured card changes to you when you switch, then wouldn't the ownership of Judah also switch to the opponent? If not, we should probably change some rules.
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Ownership of a card never changes. Control of a card can change. Since RC says return to owner's territory, then Judah should return to my control.
I like the idea of this but after it is exchanged then isn't this character now in battle? If so, then you may not have enhancements to play on him = discarding = him getting his hero back right?
Indeed. Unless it's a hero you do have enhancements for, or a nice, big FBTN hero. I most recently performed this operation on my opponent's Moses, and the only response he had was Christian Martyr.
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Yes but after the battle cards return to their owners territories. IMO if you put Your Judah goes into battle, it switches with opponents hero in RC. You make RA with opponents Hero, then after that Opponents hero returns to Opponents Territory, not yours. It would be like a sidebattle where I controll opponents EC. After battle all cards return to their owners.
Ashpenaz states that you controlled the captured Charachter as an EC from that point on, but Juday says nothing about retaining control of the hero after battle.
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The duration of an exchange of cards is permanent unless stated otherwise.
Nothing on Judah states otherwise.
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IMO if you put Your Judah goes into battle, it switches with opponents hero in RC. You make RA with opponents Hero, then after that Opponents hero returns to Opponents Territory, not yours.
This is what I was thinking.
You know, I am very confused about the definition of ownership. I mean, it has been said that own = permanent control, but it seems like many do not agree with this (me inluded). I think "own" should mean that the card is in your physical sleeve. The reason it is important is because we consider "yours" to mean owned by you and controlled by you. I personally think a distinction should be (if it has not already been) made between ownership, temporary control, and permanent control (if such a thing should even exist).
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Owner
When the special ability of a card refers to the owner, it means the player from whose deck the card was drawn.
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Well I'm just plumb confused...
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This officially is soooo broken. I wanna make a deck around this now...
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So...ownership never changes? But permanent control does? And "your" requires ownership?
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So...ownership never changes? But permanent control does? And "your" requires ownership?
Yes. I always own the cards I bring to the tournament. However, my opponent can temporarily control my cards, or even permanently if an exchange allows it. But he can never target a card I own with a card that says "your", according to the rules, where your=own and control.
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So, my opponent cannot use the Demon Discarder (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/james115demon1.htm) Lost Soul to discard a Seven Wicked Spirits (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/sevenwickedspirits.htm) which has been exchanged into his territory?
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So, my opponent cannot use the Demon Discarder (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/james115demon1.htm) Lost Soul to discard a Seven Wicked Spirits (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/sevenwickedspirits.htm) which has been exchanged into his territory?
Correct.
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Does no one contradict this? I'm ecstatic if this is the case, but it probably means that I and perhaps a few others have been playing a few things slightly wrong.
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Does no one contradict this? I'm ecstatic if this is the case, but it probably means that I and perhaps a few others have been playing a few things slightly wrong.
No one will if they know the rules.
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I think for awhile there was a myth that exchange (like with SWS) somehow changed ownership, but there is nothing in the REG that supports that, and there is something that contradicts it (the definition of owner). So feel free to be ecstatic.
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This officially is soooo broken. I wanna make a deck around this now...
Not really. If your opponent is able to get all of your heroes into Raider's Camp in the first place, then you've already got problems. ;)
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Does no one contradict this? I'm ecstatic if this is the case, but it probably means that I and perhaps a few others have been playing a few things slightly wrong.
No one will if they know the rules.
...or read through the rather long thread on Magic Charms.
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I think for awhile there was a myth that exchange (like with SWS) somehow changed ownership, but there is nothing in the REG that supports that, and there is something that contradicts it (the definition of owner). So feel free to be ecstatic.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.collectorsquest.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fbustedplacard.jpg&hash=b2f4d4f76e1e560fc9e8182aecec048fa9e37ece)
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Lol. Nice.
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So...i feel like I got skipped. When you exchange and get their hero you are in battle right? Say you die? Then the hero goes into their discard pile right? Where is the benefit in that if they have chariots (which almost everyone does..)?
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I'd assume since they are using levi they would be banding to him so you'd keep a blue hero in battle with their plethora of negates. Aside from that the benefit would be killing off their heroes without killing yours.
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So...i feel like I got skipped. When you exchange and get their hero you are in battle right? Say you die? Then the hero goes into their discard pile right? Where is the benefit in that if they have chariots (which almost everyone does..)?
No, that's not a problem. Everybody either uses blue or multicolored decks these days. If you're both playing blue, great! If you're both playing with a bunch of colors, then neither of you have enhancements anyway. ;)
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I'd assume since they are using levi they would be banding to him so you'd keep a blue hero in battle with their plethora of negates. Aside from that the benefit would be killing off their heroes without killing yours.
...What? I don't understand what you're trying to say. Levi doesn't band to Judah...does he?
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So...i feel like I got skipped. When you exchange and get their hero you are in battle right? Say you die? Then the hero goes into their discard pile right? Where is the benefit in that if they have chariots (which almost everyone does..)?
No. I'm the one who got skipped... ;)
Ownership of a card never changes. Control of a card can change. Since RC says return to owner's territory, then Judah should return to my control.
I like the idea of this but after it is exchanged then isn't this character now in battle? If so, then you may not have enhancements to play on him = discarding = him getting his hero back right?
Indeed. Unless it's a hero you do have enhancements for, or a nice, big FBTN hero. I most recently performed this operation on my opponent's Moses, and the only response he had was Christian Martyr.
Sure my opponent's hero died. But it's better than my hero dying. If you're a speed deck/big offense player, then this maneuver may not have much value. Then again, you probably wouldn't be using either Genesis heroes or RC in that case. As a defensive player, you can get rid of their heroes. And while most people play with Chariot, it is by no means indestructible.
And like I said, you may end up gaining control of their big FBTN guy, like Moses or TSA. And it's better for you for them to kill their own hero than yours.
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okay...i think I'm understanding a little better now..iLm going to try this I think
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Sniping???!!! awesome!!!!
but all I see here is Judah. where are all the snipes?
this costume isn't helping me at all... but I can't imagine how bad of luck I'd have without it.
the hero stealing thing is awesome. I think I'll build a deck around this.
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
well, he is posting it on a public forum...
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
no, he's going to post it on the public redemption forum and not allow anybody to use it. I think he wants to copywrite it.
Be nice andrew....be nice
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
no, he's going to post it on the public redemption forum and not allow anybody to use it. I think he wants to copywrite it.
Be nice andrew....be nice
I'll edit it. it does seem like it comes across wrong... but I didn't intend it that way, I just found it funny.
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
well, he is posting it on a public forum...
much nicer
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it. You'll have to find a different idea.
Just kidding. But I might suggest a different defense than Phillies. Black capture is better with Sadducees, and Gray or Pale Green capture is better in general. I have two different Genesis decks: one with Assyrians, and the other with Syrians.
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
gonna go back in time and steal it?
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
gonna go back in time and steal it?
I have no idea how you got Albert Einstein mixed up with Timmy Turner.
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
gonna go back in time and steal it?
I have no idea how you got Albert Einstein mixed up with Timmy Turner.
I'm pretty sure there's something in Da Rules that prevents going back in time and stealing stuff...
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
gonna go back in time and steal it?
I have no idea how you got Albert Einstein mixed up with Timmy Turner.
I'm pretty sure there's something in Da Rules that prevents going back in time and stealing stuff...
Only if you are unable to prevent yourself from existing.
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
gonna go back in time and steal it?
I have no idea how you got Albert Einstein mixed up with Timmy Turner.
I'm pretty sure there's something in Da Rules that prevents going back in time and stealing stuff...
Only if you are unable to prevent yourself from existing.
wait, how do you know? do you have a copy of Da Rules?
BB... do you have... FAIRIES! (*twitch)
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
gonna go back in time and steal it?
I have no idea how you got Albert Einstein mixed up with Timmy Turner.
I'm pretty sure there's something in Da Rules that prevents going back in time and stealing stuff...
Only if you are unable to prevent yourself from existing.
wait, how do you know? do you have a copy of Da Rules?
BB... do you have... FAIRIES! (*twitch)
No, just Chuck Norris.
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i like this.... professor alstad, thank you a ton! i have him, and i think this combo would go great with my soon to be philie/genisis deck. would you mind if i used it?
No, sorry. I just filed a patent with it.
Not if Albert Einstein has anything to say about it.
gonna go back in time and steal it?
I have no idea how you got Albert Einstein mixed up with Timmy Turner.
I'm pretty sure there's something in Da Rules that prevents going back in time and stealing stuff...
Only if you are unable to prevent yourself from existing.
wait, how do you know? do you have a copy of Da Rules?
BB... do you have... FAIRIES! (*twitch)
No, just Chuck Norris.
Crocker just died.
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And that's all folks!