Author Topic: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.  (Read 853 times)

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« on: December 13, 2019, 10:59:15 AM »
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If you haven't seen it on discord, head on over! We revealed a new Dual-Alignment dominant today.
I want to take some time to start a conversation about where players think in falls in dominant rankings. It is intended to be a very popular chase UR dominant.

I think most players would agree on a core 5:
Son of God
Second Coming (Or New Jerusalem)
Angel of the Lord
Christian Martyr
Three Woes

Leaving two potential flex spots. I think most players probably use one of the two Falling Away options.
I really think Chronicles is a strong contender for spot #7. It can function as Destruction if you're worried about a Covenant, Idol, Temple Art, or Curse (Looking at you BotC and CwD) it is a more permanent answer than Woes for things like Faith of David, and in fact answers some things that Woes cannot like Faith Among Corruption, or Gams Speech. It has the same in battle negate power of Woes and Destruction. In summary, it's an extremely flexible dominant that doesn't have Woes reusability. I'll certainly be running it in a lot of decks this year. How about you?
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Offline SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2019, 11:01:36 AM »
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The versatility is amazing.  Did it just staple in the 7? Definitely a possibility.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2019, 12:37:01 PM »
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I feel like this is an auto include in every deck because there is so much it can target.  In early game it can get rid of a stall card for an early Redeemed Soul or get rid of a limit/restrict type card to help you block.  In mid/late game it can help to clear your opponent's side to give you play advantage and greatly disrupt your opponent's strategy.
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Offline Red

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 01:38:56 PM »
+2
I really dislike new staple dominants at this point. However, I understand why they continue to be made, given the way that they drive set sales. I don't think it staples in "the" seven, as I can still find decks that want Grapes, Guardian, heck I've got a burial deck that I reallly like in T1.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2019, 01:45:56 PM »
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I don’t care for it. It just feels very DoNish. I get it has a little more versatility but with the new DoN being more versatile than the last one CotK feels like it’s just a copy of new DoN.  If I see the card designers actually use it in their high level tournament decks then I may consider it’s usage. But if they don’t use it then that tells you a lot.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 01:48:22 PM by Watchman »
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2019, 01:54:20 PM »
+1
With this i feel there are enough "staple doms" that you cant really put them all into your deck, especially as i feel shipwreck, grapes, and even mayhem are starting to become a staple doms as well, so this forces some strategy in which ones you will use.  I like the diversity of having enough powerful doms that you have to chose instead of "well these 6 are clearly the best, i have to use them, what should 7 be"

plus i really like this card, its like a 1 time super 3W but you also have to be careful not to hit your arts and placed enhancements as well, giving ot another layer of strategy.   plus the ability fits perfectly with what the card Biblically represents, job well done

Offline 777Godspeed

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2019, 04:12:33 PM »
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A lot of good points and positions have been brought up about CotK. My take is it will require decks to be built around it, much like decks running CwD. The ability to have an Authority of Christ or Dragon's Wrath potential for hitting Temple Arts, Covs., Curses, Idols, GEs and EEs instead of characters is pretty sweet. You just gotta make sure when you play it you don't do yourself in at the same time.


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Offline Master Q

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2019, 04:53:10 PM »
+8
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as it stands right now, CotK is a poorly-designed card. It is 3W and DoN all in one. How could it not be a staple?

In a world without 3 Woes, I could see this being more acceptable. But if you were to tell me even a couple years ago that something like this was in development, I would have still asked the same question: why? Why do we need more things that do everything? Isn't 3W enough? Isn't DoN enough? Why would anyone ever use DoN if they could use this instead?

3 Woes is so bad for the game because of how much it counters with basically no downside. Its power level and flexibility are unhealthy. Adding it to your deck only makes it better. Assuming TSC and NJ aren't leaving, apart from FA(w), I would be willing to say 3W is the most powerful Dominant in the pool and the first I would want to see go. But that will never happen. So adding another card so similar to it while also undermining the chase Dom of the last set just seems like a bad idea all around. :P
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2019, 05:13:18 PM »
+1
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as it stands right now, CotK is a poorly-designed card. It is 3W and DoN all in one. How could it not be a staple?

In a world without 3 Woes, I could see this being more acceptable. But if you were to tell me even a couple years ago that something like this was in development, I would have still asked the same question: why? Why do we need more things that do everything? Isn't 3W enough? Isn't DoN enough? Why would anyone ever use DoN if they could use this instead?

3 Woes is so bad for the game because of how much it counters with basically no downside. Its power level and flexibility are unhealthy. Adding it to your deck only makes it better. Assuming TSC and NJ aren't leaving, apart from FA(w), I would be willing to say 3W is the most powerful Dominant in the pool and the first I would want to see go. But that will never happen. So adding another card so similar to it while also undermining the chase Dom of the last set just seems like a bad idea all around. :P

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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2019, 05:36:02 PM »
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: as it stands right now, CotK is a poorly-designed card. It is 3W and DoN all in one. How could it not be a staple?

In a world without 3 Woes, I could see this being more acceptable. But if you were to tell me even a couple years ago that something like this was in development, I would have still asked the same question: why? Why do we need more things that do everything? Isn't 3W enough? Isn't DoN enough? Why would anyone ever use DoN if they could use this instead?

3 Woes is so bad for the game because of how much it counters with basically no downside. Its power level and flexibility are unhealthy. Adding it to your deck only makes it better. Assuming TSC and NJ aren't leaving, apart from FA(w), I would be willing to say 3W is the most powerful Dominant in the pool and the first I would want to see go. But that will never happen. So adding another card so similar to it while also undermining the chase Dom of the last set just seems like a bad idea all around. :P

I hear what you're saying. I disagree. It's definitely a blend of the Two, but it doesn't replace either one. HSR and Charms are just two artifacts off the top of my head that are brutal to play against that Destruction can answer that this can't. There's decks where I might want to play both. More answers to artifacts are never a bad thing.
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Offline Master Q

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2019, 06:24:22 PM »
+3
I hear what you're saying. I disagree. It's definitely a blend of the Two, but it doesn't replace either one. HSR and Charms are just two artifacts off the top of my head that are brutal to play against that Destruction can answer that this can't. There's decks where I might want to play both. More answers to artifacts are never a bad thing.

3W will never be replaced, but in my mind this definitely replaces DoN. HSR is a non-issue since 3W covers that. Charms is a non-issue since AotL and 3W cover it. DoN is basically for CwD (which 3W doesn't cover) and Book; at least from what I saw this year. This hits those. So why would you ever run DoN over CotK, especially if you can win a battle with CotK's negate while also potentially hitting an Art?

Besides, there's so much anti-anything now that making more dominants that do more of the same is just adding fuel to the fire. I mean, the new Joshua hits, what, four potential card types? And that's after you've banded him in with CotH to get the negate + draw. And he adds another Hero to continue a possible banding chain? And it's CBN?? At least he's not a Dominant, but still... show some restraint. :P

I'd much rather see more Dominants like Ride Awesome or the yet-to-be-spoiled Dominant over anything like this any day. I probably put more value on negates than most people, but any dominant that says "negate and discard an evil/good Enhancement" is staple power level, at least as far as I'm concerned. And this one also does DoN's job for most decks? Imagine playing against a Job or defensive deck with this + TSC on top of whatever they use to block you. Done deal.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2019, 06:29:41 PM »
+1
I've said it before and I'll say it again: as it stands right now, CotK is a poorly-designed card. It is 3W and DoN all in one. How could it not be a staple?

In a world without 3 Woes, I could see this being more acceptable. But if you were to tell me even a couple years ago that something like this was in development, I would have still asked the same question: why? Why do we need more things that do everything? Isn't 3W enough? Isn't DoN enough? Why would anyone ever use DoN if they could use this instead?

3 Woes is so bad for the game because of how much it counters with basically no downside. Its power level and flexibility are unhealthy. Adding it to your deck only makes it better. Assuming TSC and NJ aren't leaving, apart from FA(w), I would be willing to say 3W is the most powerful Dominant in the pool and the first I would want to see go. But that will never happen. So adding another card so similar to it while also undermining the chase Dom of the last set just seems like a bad idea all around. :P

I hear what you're saying. I disagree. It's definitely a blend of the Two, but it doesn't replace either one. HSR and Charms are just two artifacts off the top of my head that are brutal to play against that Destruction can answer that this can't. There's decks where I might want to play both. More answers to artifacts are never a bad thing.
I agree with this.  The ability to get rid of anything in an artifact pile is so important because there are so many places you can have an artifact active and most enhancements played in battle to target an artifact won't win the battle and often result in losing the battle because you lose initiative.  The artifact pile is, in my opinion, one of the most important aspects of the game because so many arts/cov/curses make such a large impact on the game. 
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Offline The Schaefer

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2019, 02:14:01 AM »
+2
I'm really not a fan of this card. Sure its poweful no doubt. Definitely in contention for one of the best doms. But it's overall effect isnt really that unique (Feels too much like a hybrid DoN and 3W) and while there are advantages and disadvantages to it compared to other doms theres no real downside to it for most decks because it's still a very versatile  negate that can effect enhancements in battle let alone all the other things it hits. You may lose something to use it but you can always hold it till you need it and the advantage should outweigh the costs nearly every time. Having 3 woes and this act as functional versatile negates for battle and that just seems bad in my mind. For interactive battle to prosper doms really shouldnt be a part of it. Doms that do in a versatile way are in contention for staples and are trump cards for battle in such a way that regardless of how well you play cards in a battle 1 card can ruin your day because you cant do anything about it.

Honestly I'm not a big fan of Doms in the game since you cant really interact with them but I dont think that's really ever going to change at this point so the best I can hope for is to have doms that still allow for more interactive plays or are thematically limited. I dont feel this one is.

I do understand the desire for chase cards in the sets to promote sales though so I guess if that's the goal then this cards succeeds at small detriment to the game as a whole and in an uninspiring way. At least for a chase card. (The set as a whole seems to have a lot of potential and I like the direction of the overall set despite what potential issues I do see)

Offline Kor

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2019, 12:37:14 PM »
+1
As I play T2, I think this will probably fall into the ‘include in almost every deck’ category.  Or at least as many of this as I have will end up in decks anyways :P

Currently these are my rankings:

Always Include:
Son of God
TSC
AoTL
Grapes
Christian Martyr
Falling Away
Three Woes
Chronicles
Destruction of Nehushtan

Often include:
Burial
Shipwreck
Valley of Dry Bones

Situationally Include:
Mayhem
Holy Spirit
Guardian of Your Souls
Glory of the Lord
Strife
Vain Philosophy
Chariot of Fire (replaces SoG)
New Jerusalem (replaces TSC)
A New Beginning
Led Astray
Ride Awesome

Never Include:
Doubt
Harvest Time
Blinding Light

I feel like I probably forgot something.  Worth noting that some of the situationally include cards can be very powerful in a narrower subset of decks.
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: Chronicles of the Kings ranking.
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2020, 03:52:35 PM »
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The new Doubt is an almost always include in T2 decks for me. I think CotK is awesome and it'll be a near staple. I do agree with The Watchman though, I am interested in how many top level players play this card in T1. I know it's insanely strong and there has been numerous complaints but for T1 purposes we are debating whether it's a staple or not. The fact that this can be debated kind of shows that it is not this all powerful card. I personally think 3W is stronger because it is still extremely versatile but you get to use it every turn, CotK is amazing and flexible, but a one time use. If anything this hurts DoN for T2 purposes. This is very strong but also remember, there's LoC constructed and potentially rotating sets in the near future so stronger dominants have to come out so players have options to use 7 very strong dominants in their deck. 3W plus CotK in a T1 is very strong but I would take a wait and see approach on just how absurdly strong this is.
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