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Author Topic: Modifier and Moses  (Read 1309 times)

Offline Lex1122

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Modifier and Moses
« on: April 23, 2018, 02:01:55 PM »
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Tears for a friend: All players most reveal there hand. You may play the next enhancement which CBI.

My question is this if I take out Moses COW. He Negates enhancements except Cloud cards. I have hidden treasures up as an artifact. I choose to play an enhancement which is tears for a friend. Does Moses negate it? Or due to the modifier of Tears for a friend  it CBN? Which would allow it to work regardless of Moses?
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 02:04:19 PM »
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The reveal portion would be negated but the CBI granting ability would work.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 02:06:40 PM »
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Abilities that grant modifiers are CBN, but not the whole card. In this case, nobody would reveal a hand. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that you would not get to play, but that the next enhancement you do play will still be CBI. That said, unless it's also CBP, Moses will still prevent it.
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Offline Lex1122

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 02:11:31 PM »
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If the modifier is CBN and that ability says you may play the next which CBI/CBN. Then why could I not play the next immediately?
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2018, 02:15:18 PM »
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Quote from: Lex1122 on April 23, 2018, 02:11:31 PM
If the modifier is CBN and that ability says you may play the next which CBI/CBN. Then why could I not play the next immediately?

Again, I'm not 100% on this, but my understanding is that the play and the CBI-granting are two seperate abilities (even though they're in the same sentence). The play is prevented, but the modifier is CBN, so your next enhancement is still CBI.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2018, 02:15:37 PM »
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Quote from: Bobbert on April 23, 2018, 02:15:18 PM
Quote from: Lex1122 on April 23, 2018, 02:11:31 PM
If the modifier is CBN and that ability says you may play the next which CBI/CBN. Then why could I not play the next immediately?

Again, I'm not 100% on this, but my understanding is that the play and the CBI-granting are two seperate abilities (even though they're in the same sentence). The play is prevented, but the modifier is CBN, so your next enhancement is still CBI.

This is my understanding as well.
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Offline Lex1122

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2018, 02:19:11 PM »
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But there in the same sentence as stated by BOBBERT. You my play the next is the ability that is being modified. So to me that’s what CBN
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2018, 02:23:00 PM »
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"You may play an enhancement" is an ability and therefore prevented by Moses. "Enhancement is CBI" is a modifier so it's not preventable.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2018, 02:26:22 PM »
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Quote from: Lex1122 on April 23, 2018, 02:19:11 PM
But there in the same sentence as stated by BOBBERT. You my play the next is the ability that is being modified. So to me that’s what CBN

Two different abilities can exist in the same sentence. For instance, cards like Two Thousand Horses say "Interrupt the battle, draw two cards, and play the next enhancement." That's three abilities in one sentence, and they can be negated seperately - for instance, Samuel negates play abilities, so playing 2kH against him interrupts, draws two cards, but doesn't play an enhancement. It's a similar situation here - that sentence has two abilities, a "play next" and a "grant CBI". Moses still prevents the play.

Instaposed by Guardian
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Offline Lex1122

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2018, 02:44:03 PM »
+1
Ok I understand now I think. Thank you! 🙏🏼
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Offline goalieking87

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2018, 03:46:04 PM »
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Would the next enhancement played still be CBI though?

I know the modifier would not be negated, so that’s not what I am asking.  Does Tears for a Friend specifically target the enhancement that is played by the “play” ability (which is negated) or would it work on any “next” enhancement?
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2018, 03:53:19 PM »
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Quote from: goalieking87 on April 23, 2018, 03:46:04 PM
Would the next enhancement played still be CBI though?

I know the modifier would not be negated, so that’s not what I am asking.  Does Tears for a Friend specifically target the enhancement that is played by the “play” ability (which is negated) or would it work on any “next” enhancement?

That's actually a good point as I could see a very literal interpretation of this resulting in it making your opponent's enhancement CBI if the next enhancement played after this happened to be by an opponent.
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Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2018, 03:59:37 PM »
+1
the play as is "All players must reveal their hands. You may play an Enhancement. That Enhancement cannot be interrupted." Based off this it seems it's only the enhancement that you play off the play ability is CBI.
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2018, 04:01:10 PM »
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Quote from: Ironisaac on April 23, 2018, 03:59:37 PM
the play as is "All players must reveal their hands. You may play an Enhancement. That Enhancement cannot be interrupted." Based off this it seems it's only the enhancement that you play off the play ability is CBI.

If that is the case, then the card is not CBI because Moses negated the play ability.
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Offline Jeremystair

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2018, 04:43:16 PM »
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So I think that all instead abilities are modifiers right?

If so Solomon's Temple cannot be negated because it has an instead ability?

Solomon's Temple
If Solomon's Temple priest, King of Judah, or King Solomon is captured or discarded by an opponent special ability, you may discard a teal card from hand instead.
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Modifier and Moses
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2018, 05:38:54 PM »
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No, ST can be negated because the instead modifier modifies that ability, not the ability that captures or discards.
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