Author Topic: Did I make the right call?  (Read 4766 times)

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2011, 03:38:35 PM »
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No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2011, 04:12:46 PM »
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No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)

To clarify, the site is NOT good gold, but neutral gold. However, because of how site access rules are defined (the hero must have matching brigade to the site) then good gold and neutral gold are matching brigades for purposes of Herod's Temple/Antiochus, etc. However, nothing in the rules says that evil gold and good or neutral gold are matching, so there's no reason I could imagine that you could discard Egypt to save your Herod.
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Offline redemptioncousin

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2011, 01:57:43 PM »
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I assume (wa) battle prayer was ruled not to work at some point.
Gates of Hell is by far the best card in the game.  No questions asked.

Offline crustpope

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2011, 02:25:02 PM »
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I assume (wa) battle prayer was ruled not to work at some point.

not that I know of, but it is about time it should.  Battle prayer (wa) is the only thing holding together Besieging the City decks
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Offline redemptioncousin

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2011, 02:33:03 PM »
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If that's true, then using a site for a herod should totally work.
Gates of Hell is by far the best card in the game.  No questions asked.

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2011, 05:57:11 PM »
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Battle Prayer (Wa) just says "gold" and since there are two brigades that fit under that description, it's allowed to search for either. If it specified "good" gold (like the Kings version), then that would be a different story, but it does not. There is nothing about matching brigade or that good gold and evil gold are the same brigade. I assume this is why discarding a site to save a Herod with HT doesn't work.

Offline redemptioncousin

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2011, 10:37:42 AM »
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That logic seems flawed:

If the word gold allows for both good and evil brigades (see battle prayer), then a gold site (which is neutral) should satisfy anything that requires a gold card (assuming said card does not specify good/evil).
Gates of Hell is by far the best card in the game.  No questions asked.

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2011, 10:39:00 AM »
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But the brigade color on a site is inherently "good," due to the site access rules.
No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)

To clarify, the site is NOT good gold, but neutral gold. However, because of how site access rules are defined (the hero must have matching brigade to the site) then good gold and neutral gold are matching brigades for purposes of Herod's Temple/Antiochus, etc. However, nothing in the rules says that evil gold and good or neutral gold are matching, so there's no reason I could imagine that you could discard Egypt to save your Herod.
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2011, 11:00:34 AM »
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Reaso...

...sorry, gotta go, my mom's calling me.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2011, 11:49:28 AM »
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But the brigade color on a site is inherently "good," due to the site access rules.
No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)

To clarify, the site is NOT good gold, but neutral gold. However, because of how site access rules are defined (the hero must have matching brigade to the site) then good gold and neutral gold are matching brigades for purposes of Herod's Temple/Antiochus, etc. However, nothing in the rules says that evil gold and good or neutral gold are matching, so there's no reason I could imagine that you could discard Egypt to save your Herod.
I don't understand how you say site brigade is good, then quote an Elder who says it isn't.
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Offline Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2011, 11:55:39 AM »
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But the brigade color on a site is inherently "good," due to the site access rules.
No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)

To clarify, the site is NOT good gold, but neutral gold. However, because of how site access rules are defined (the hero must have matching brigade to the site) then good gold and neutral gold are matching brigades for purposes of Herod's Temple/Antiochus, etc. However, nothing in the rules says that evil gold and good or neutral gold are matching, so there's no reason I could imagine that you could discard Egypt to save your Herod.
I don't understand how you say site brigade is good, then quote an Elder who says it isn't.

It's easy to understand how he did it. The real question is why.  ;)

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2011, 01:53:50 PM »
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That's why I keep putting the quotes around "good."  Egypt isn't evil gold, it isn't good gold, but it can be targeted as a good gold card based on how site access works.
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2011, 02:20:50 PM »
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That's why I keep putting the quotes around "good."  Egypt isn't evil gold, it isn't good gold, but it can be targeted as a good gold card based on how site access works.

No...the REG says that in order to have access to a site, a Hero must have a matching brigade to the site, or another form of access. That is why if a card says matching brigade, sites and Heroes have matching brigade. This also makes sense intuitively, because the colors in the icon box are the same.

However, it has also been decided that in order to enforce the idea that sites are neutral, they don't have good brigades. They have neutral brigades. This means that if a card refers to the number of good brigades in your territory, sites are not included. This also means that they cannot be targeted as good gold cards. If a card simply said "gold card" then it could target gold sites, since neutral gold is gold, just like good gold and evil gold are both gold.

The only reason it was ruled that sites can satisfy Herod's Temple is the REG quote about site access. Good gold does not match evil gold, but because the only way for the REG to make sense in that case, good gold is a matching brigade to neutral gold.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2011, 03:06:35 PM »
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Thanks for clarifying that point.
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2011, 03:44:51 PM »
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Thanks for clarifying that point.

No problem. That's why I'm here.
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Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2011, 09:40:27 PM »
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I gotta say that this seems logically ridiculous. 

Site have neutral brigades and heros have good brigades which are different brigades but they are matching brigades because they are the same color.  Usually matching means it is the same but not in this case.  Evil brigades however don't match good or neutral brigades even if they are the same color.  So we know the good card matches because it is good but the site brigade isn't good. 

I think it would be far simpler and more logical to simply say that sites are neutral cards that depict (have) good brigades on them.  The sites have always been just the good brigades; there are no black, brown, etc, sites.

Someone countered that brigade colors were not inherently good or evil.  They said how could you know that the gold site was good and not evil gold brigade; so it was neither it was just gold color.  They were saying that someday we could have a good black and brown brigade and therefore have sites of those colors.  I just don't see this being the case.  (although I think it would be cool to have black sites)  I see that colors aren't inherently good or evil but I think brigades are.  We don't have any neutral brigades in the game other than the supposed site brigades.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2013, 12:38:15 AM »
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Is this still the current ruling? (That a Site can be discarded for Herod's Temple or Antiochus)

Would it make a difference if the Site was DragonRaid?

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Offline Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2013, 09:27:22 AM »
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Reading through this again, there is one point that was never brought up in the past.

Sites are neutral cards.

The OP incorrectly quoted Ant IV's ability, stating that it said "Good card of matching brigade." The card actually says: "...Opponent may discard a card of matching brigade from hand or territory instead..."

Therefore, I'd say discarding a site for Ant IV is fine. If another ability were to specify a good card of matching brigade, then I would say no.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2013, 10:04:34 AM »
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As far as I know, the rule is still current, and appropriately-colored sites (including DR) are matching brigades for those abilities.
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Offline DDiceRC

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2013, 02:15:16 PM »
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...They were saying that someday we could have a good black and brown brigade and therefore have sites of those colors.  I just don't see this being the case.  (although I think it would be cool to have black sites)... 


You can do that with the Redemption Card Creator:


BTW, that card makes perfect sense in the context of the game for which it was created.
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Offline JDS

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2020, 04:26:38 PM »
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Is it still the case that a site can match a hero's brigade? Say for the purpose of exchanging or discarding a card of matching brigade.

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Did I make the right call?
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2020, 05:05:15 PM »
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Is it still the case that a site can match a hero's brigade? Say for the purpose of exchanging or discarding a card of matching brigade.
Yes. The brigades are not tied to their alignment - a captured character is a neutral card of it's brigade (but usually isn't targetable by anything that cares), so all 16 can exist as neutral.