Author Topic: Clarification (Read 5081 times)

Ironica · « **on:** February 06, 2010, 07:26:21 PM »

A couple of things came up in the three hour T2 game I played this morning (which we never finished due to both of us having to leave).

1) I have priestly breastplate activated on Aaron. Later on, Aaron is set aside. Where does PB go?

2) With PB, due to the wording of the last sentence, does that mean I used up my one activation in the artifact pile before I transfer it to Aaron or can I still activate another artifact?

3) I attack with a hero. My opponent blocks with an evil character that's immune to be, can I play vision to cause a side battle with the immune character?

That's all I can remember.

Priestly Breastplate (Priests)

Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate all ignore and repel abilities on Characters and Enhancements. May be placed on a good High Priest when activated.

Visions

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Select one of your Evil Characters to fight a blocking Evil Character. Prevent all special abilities on opponent’s Enhancements during that battle. • Identifiers: OT, Based on Prophecy

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2010, 08:28:42 PM »

1) With Aaron

2) Sorry but yes you used up your own activation.

3) No. Immune = Can't be effected by opp's cards.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2010, 10:34:55 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on February 06, 2010, 08:28:42 PM

3) No. Immune = Can't be effected by opp's cards.

Slight addition to this.

Immune = Cannot be targeted for harm. There is a difference, although it's not a huge one.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2010, 07:33:30 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 06, 2010, 10:34:55 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on February 06, 2010, 08:28:42 PM
3) No. Immune = Can't be effected by opp's cards.

Slight addition to this.

Immune = Cannot be targeted for harm. There is a difference, although it's not a huge one.

Would an example of the difference here be forced drawing, or am I confused?

Ironica · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2010, 09:13:15 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 06, 2010, 10:34:55 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on February 06, 2010, 08:28:42 PM
3) No. Immune = Can't be effected by opp's cards.

Slight addition to this.

Immune = Cannot be targeted for harm. There is a difference, although it's not a huge one.

With that definition, how is initiating a side battle harmful for the immune person? All that is going on is the hero is calling some one else to fight them. I see no harm on the immune person (like if we are fighting and I can't hurt you, nothing is stopping me from calling on some one else to fight you). What am I missing?

Also another question:

If I use Carried Into Exile on a bab, can I choose to capture one or two or must it be two (as long as there are two legal targets)?

Carried into Exile

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Capture a human (or two humans if used by a Babylonian).

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2010, 09:31:12 AM »

It must be two if possible.

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2010, 10:16:05 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on February 07, 2010, 09:31:12 AM

It must be two if possible.

It's 2 even if it means capturing one of your own characters.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2010, 10:33:28 AM »

'

Quote from: Ironica on February 06, 2010, 07:26:21 PM

1) I have priestly breastplate activated on Aaron. Later on, Aaron is set aside. Where does PB go?

In the short term it stays on Aaron. It definitely works for the remainder of the round. Whether it continues to work after the initial round it was set aside and where it would go thereafter depend on what was meant by SirNobody's cryptic claim...

Quote from: SirNobody on January 18, 2010, 08:39:36 PM

Artifacts do work in set aside.

Quote

2) With PB, due to the wording of the last sentence, does that mean I used up my one activation in the artifact pile before I transfer it to Aaron or can I still activate another artifact?

Yes, it uses your single artifact pile activation. It may be worse than that, however, Earlier in the thread referenced above SirNobody explained

Quote from: SirNobody on January 12, 2010, 03:09:31 PM

An activated artifact remains active for one round. In both cases if you set aside the hero that the card is on it completes it's "current" activation. For the placed card that means it continues to work until the end of the game. For the artifact it means it continues to work until the end of the round. After the round the artifact must be activated again to remain in effect, but the hero it was on is no longer a valid target to activate it on because the hero is out of play.

Since Priestly Breastplate requires activation and then placement (as opposed to Magic Charms, for example), by this argument PB should eat up your artifact pile activation every single round it is active whether placed on a Priest or no.

Ironica · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2010, 10:41:26 AM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 07, 2010, 10:33:28 AM

Since Priestly Breastplate requires activation and then placement (as opposed to Magic Charms, for example), by this argument PB should eat up your artifact pile activation every single round it is active whether placed on a Priest or no.

Wow. That stinks. If that's true, then I will need to find another way to stop ignores.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2010, 11:46:20 AM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 07, 2010, 10:33:28 AM

Since Priestly Breastplate requires activation and then placement (as opposed to Magic Charms, for example), by this argument PB should eat up your artifact pile activation every single round it is active whether placed on a Priest or no.

Are you saying that if PB was on aaron in set aside, that I can't activate something else in my normal art pile afterwards? That makes no sense.

Quote from: Ironica on February 07, 2010, 09:13:15 AM

With that definition, how is initiating a side battle harmful for the immune person? All that is going on is the hero is calling some one else to fight them. I see no harm on the immune person (like if we are fighting and I can't hurt you, nothing is stopping me from calling on some one else to fight you). What am I missing?

Targeting someone for a side battle can result in them being harmed, therefore targeting with a side battle is considered harm.

The main difference is that an immune/protected character can be targeted by a negate, even if the immune ability was granted by another card. so, they are unable to be targeted by most abilities, but not all of them.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:03:41 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 07, 2010, 11:46:20 AM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on February 07, 2010, 10:33:28 AM
Since Priestly Breastplate requires activation and then placement (as opposed to Magic Charms, for example), by this argument PB should eat up your artifact pile activation every single round it is active whether placed on a Priest or no.

Are you saying that if PB was on aaron in set aside, that I can't activate something else in my normal art pile afterwards? That makes no sense.

No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is that there is no real advantage to placing PB on a high priest when it comes to activating other artifacts. Since you need to reactivate PB every round if you want it to be active, this will eat up the activation slot from your artifact pile. If you want to activate a different artifact on the artifact pile, you need to turn down PB even if it is placed on a Priest on a previous round.

crustpope · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2010, 09:16:21 AM »

I strenuously dissagree with this ruling because it makes no sense. Everyone knows what it is SUPPOSE to do, but due to some missed wording, or some new concepts (like re-activating an artifact each round) now the house of cards comes crumbling down.

This Card needs an errata bad if this is the case because there is no point to placing it on a priest if you continue to use up your same art slot each time.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2010, 09:29:05 AM »

Split Altar first.

crustpope · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2010, 09:41:15 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 04, 2010, 09:29:05 AM

Split Altar first.

I can get behind that one as well. It is ridiculous for a national promo (in this era of streamlining SA's on cards) to be so impotent .

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2010, 09:55:18 AM »

Quote from: crustpope on May 04, 2010, 09:41:15 AM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 04, 2010, 09:29:05 AM
Split Altar first.

I can get behind that one as well. It is ridiculous for a national promo (in this era of streamlining SA's on cards) to be so impotent .

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:48:33 AM »

We don't errata cards to make them stronger, We also don't errata cards to do what we thought they would do.

crustpope · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:53:15 AM »

Then:
A) get the job right the first time (especially since you already had a card that did what split altar was suppose to do...you should have gotten it right)
B) we should.

Red · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2010, 10:53:46 AM »

Quote from: crustpope on May 04, 2010, 10:53:15 AM

Then:
A) get the job right the first time (especially since you already had a card that did what split altar was suppose to do...you should have gotten it right)
B) we should.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2010, 11:43:57 AM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 04, 2010, 10:48:33 AM

We don't errata cards to make them stronger, We also don't errata cards to do what we thought they would do.

Either fix Zaccheus or fix Split Altar.

Korunks · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2010, 11:50:44 AM »

Quote

We don't errata cards to make them stronger, We also don't errata cards to do what we thought they would do.

I have never understood why this is the case. Is/Was there a critical reason for this? There seems to be a growing list of cards that don't do what they were meant to do by means of slightly incorrect wording. Perhaps we can revisit why we don't do this and maybe do the game some good. I for one would love to see Split Altar work. But I am also the wacko that want's Satan's Folly to work also so

crustpope · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2010, 12:51:39 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on May 04, 2010, 11:43:57 AM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 04, 2010, 10:48:33 AM
We don't errata cards to make them stronger, We also don't errata cards to do what we thought they would do.
Either fix Zaccheus or fix Split Altar.

am I missing something? what is wrong with Zach?

Red · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2010, 12:52:53 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on May 04, 2010, 12:51:39 PM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on May 04, 2010, 11:43:57 AM
Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 04, 2010, 10:48:33 AM
We don't errata cards to make them stronger, We also don't errata cards to do what we thought they would do.
Either fix Zaccheus or fix Split Altar.

am I missing something? what is wrong with Zach?

It goes to hand not play.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:05:54 PM »

O_o imo its better that way, stops fort abuse, even though it wasn't the "Original intent"

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:08:51 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on May 04, 2010, 12:51:39 PM

what is wrong with Zach?

Zaccheus has an unneeded "play as" (really an errata) that makes him more powerful. I don't see why we can't do this for cards that actually need it.

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on May 04, 2010, 01:05:54 PM

stops fort abuse

¿Qué? How is putting a fortress from your deck straight to play less powerful that having to wait to play it until after battle?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #24 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:14:16 PM »

Wow, I don't recall ever seeing his play as before. For everyone else who hasn't seen it:

Quote

Zaccheus
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 5 / 2 • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may search draw pile for one Fortress card. Shuffle draw pile. • Play As: Holder may search draw pile for one Fortress card and put it in play. • Identifiers: NT Male Human • Verse: Luke 19:5 • Availability: Apostles booster packs (Uncommon)

That seems really strange that that was added. I agree it needs to be fixed. Search cards default to placing the searched for card in hand, unless specified otherwise.

Bryon · « **Reply #25 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:16:06 PM »

Zaccheeus' play as is wrong.

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on May 04, 2010, 01:05:54 PM

O_o imo its better that way, stops fort abuse, even though it wasn't the "Original intent"

Actually, it WAS the original intent. You have never been able to put the fort in play that you searched for with Zaccheus. Ever since I playtested that set it has always been the same.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:21:16 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on May 04, 2010, 01:16:06 PM

Zaccheeus' play as is wrong. ... You have never been able to put the fort in play that you searched for with Zaccheus.

Well this needs more publicity, because I've seen a lot of people (many of them experienced - Justin even?) use it the way the "play as" says to.

STAMP · « **Reply #27 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:22:34 PM »

It's just a wee little misunderstanding.

Korunks · « **Reply #28 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:26:36 PM »

I'm still curious as to why we have an aversion to making cards do what they were meant to do, even if it makes them stronger. Is it because we are trying to avoid people getting their favorite card powered up?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #29 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:34:09 PM »

I believe its so people don't have to memorize a 100+ card errata page.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #30 on:** May 04, 2010, 01:37:47 PM »

Well it wouldn't be much different than it is now, as they have to memorize a 100+ list of cards that do not work.

Bryon · « **Reply #31 on:** May 04, 2010, 02:09:06 PM »

Players don't have to memorize a list if cards just do what they say they do.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #32 on:** May 04, 2010, 02:15:27 PM »

Playtesters should pay a bit more attention to what the Nationals Promo actually does.

Korunks · « **Reply #33 on:** May 04, 2010, 02:16:43 PM »

Quote

Players don't have to memorize a list if cards just do what they say they do.

So it is a decision to maintain "simplicity" of the game then? I can understand that. It just seems like a lot of potential fun from what would have been great cards is lost.

crustpope · « **Reply #34 on:** May 04, 2010, 02:23:41 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on May 04, 2010, 01:22:34 PM

It's just a wee little misunderstanding.

i caught that

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 04, 2010, 02:15:27 PM

Playtesters should pay a bit more attention to what the Nationals Promo actually does.

Yes. of all the cards, this one hurts the most. Especially those of us who paid a pretty penny during nats that year in Ohio to get extras only to find out that they are not as powerful as advertized...

Bryon · « **Reply #35 on:** May 04, 2010, 02:31:04 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 04, 2010, 02:15:27 PM

Playtesters should pay a bit more attention to what the Nationals Promo actually does.

Yes, we should have. I'm sorry that card was not worded correctly. I can take part of the blame for writing that card (I modified a player's suggestion, but left his oversight in the wording). All of us playtesters should have read it more carefully. Thankfully, this year, we had a lot of careful eyes on the project. I think this set will be one of the best as far as card wording goes.

To avoid this issue in the future, Nationals promos will be gold-bordered cards with no special abilities. Watch this year for the first-ever gold-bordered no-special-ability Lost Soul!

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #36 on:** May 04, 2010, 02:33:53 PM »

w00t! All-gold deck, here I come!

crustpope · « **Reply #37 on:** May 04, 2010, 03:17:16 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on May 04, 2010, 02:31:04 PM

To avoid this issue in the future, Nationals promos will be gold-bordered cards with no special abilities. Watch this year for the first-ever gold-bordered no-special-ability Lost Soul!

Well, er..um..that is one way to fix the problem I guess...

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:32:56 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on May 04, 2010, 01:22:34 PM

It's just a wee little misunderstanding.

That was funny

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on May 04, 2010, 01:34:09 PM

I believe its so people don't have to memorize a 100+ card errata page.

Having cards simply do what they say is worth having some cards be useless. The alternative is to have a game that people can't pick up and play without reading a ton of extra stuff.

Quote from: Bryon on May 04, 2010, 02:31:04 PM

I'm sorry that card was not worded correctly.

I appreciate Bryon's apology here, and encourage everyone to stop being upset about Split Altar. Yes it was a mistake, but they have admitted it and apologized. There is no reason to keep bringing it up. Let's just move on.

News:

Author Topic: Clarification (Read 5081 times)

Ironica

Lamborghini_diablo

Ironica

browarod

Ironica

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo