Author Topic: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution  (Read 7039 times)

Offline CtheTree

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Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« on: January 23, 2020, 04:29:38 AM »
+2
The Problem and Call:

If you type “Redemption Card Game” into google one of the first results that shows up is a site called Board Game Geek. Right now Redemption only has 5.9 out of 10 possible stars. SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx and ReyZen called on the Redemption Discord for those of us that feel led to leave positive ratings and comments about the game. After all for new people looking into Redemption this is one of the first impressions they will get about the game on the internet! You can see the page here, create an account and leave a positive rating: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2201/redemption

The Troublesome Review:

Beyond this though there is something else that caught my eye. The top result on google for a review on Redemption that comes up is also on Board Game Geek and the title of that review is “Review: Not many redeeming qualities for this Christian CCG” by EndersGame in 2008. This review does not have favorable remarks about Redemption and even claims it is Biblically inaccurate. You can read the review here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/340834/review-not-many-redeeming-qualities-christian-ccg

Also here is a supplement to the main review which is also by EndersGame: 
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/340846/review-pictorial-evaluation-cards-and-components-r

This review really bothers me for several reasons: 1) It is an inaccurate representation of Redemption. 2) It was written in 2008 and is rather outdated. 3) The writer of the review’s claims that Redemption is Biblically inaccurate just simply are not right. 4) This inaccurate review is the first review that pops up on a google search and the most popular game critic review on Redemption!

The Solution:

All of this being said I decided it was time to write a more accurate review of Redemption on Board Game Geek. You can find my review here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2354404/redemption-wonderful-improving-game-recent-review

I would like to request your help. If you desire to see Redemption grow and advance or if you desire for those who are new to the game to get an accurate exposure to Redemption on the internet instead of a tainted one please create an account on Board Game Geek and like my review. By doing this if I get more likes than EndersGame’s review, my review will be the top result that shows up on Board Game Geek and hopefully eventually on the internet.

Also if you create an account be sure to give Redemption itself a favorable 10 star rating and leave a positive comment about the game. Redemption is a fantastic game and I want newcomers to get an accurate impression of it.

EDIT: Important Note- You can like the review on the bottom of the page but be sure to press the green thumb button at the TOP of the page. The recommend button is the one that boosts the review.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:38:37 PM by CtheTree »
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2020, 08:34:42 AM »
+1
Amazing initiative and analysis. I’ll try to write up something tomorrow or Saturday and I highly encourage others who have been playing for years and want to see the game grow to do the same.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 09:05:56 AM »
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I was just looking at EndersGame's profile and he has not logged in to BoardGameGeek since October 2017.  However, prior to that he has an extensive list of reviews and other contributions to BoardGameGeek.

Tim M (previous T1 Nationals Champion) had an excellent rebutal of the review as did Schaef.

Since EndersGame appears to now be inactive I'm not sure we'll be able to change his mind but I think this is a great idea.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 09:31:09 AM by Sean »
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 11:38:18 AM »
0
Three quick comments:
  • Board Game Geek assigns a lesser weight to users who rate a a single game to avoid marketing spamming. (Or at least they did back when I was active member there.) If you want your ratings to count, you should rate at least five or six other games.
  • EndersGame main complaint was not about Biblical accuracy it was that Redemption CCG lacks respect for Scripture.
  • Going down the Bible accuracy route is a problematic framing in my mind.

Offline CtheTree

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 12:46:13 PM »
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Thank you all for your feedback. Thanks Mr. Hiatus!

Sean: I completely agree with regard to changing the mind of EndersGame. That is not likely to happen nor is that the intent here. The intent is to have a alternate review that is more up to date and shows up when people search for Redemption on the internet. Saw the comment by The M that you are referring to. Did not notice that in the comments on EndersGame article before. He did a great job!

EmJayBee83: Really helpful to know on how BoardGameGeek weighs articles. I will be sure to make some additional reviews.

Regarding Biblical accuracy vs. lack of Respect for Scripture I would appreciate further details on what you mean by this and exactly why you view the angle I take as being problematic. If you feel it would be better feel free to PM me about this. I want this review to be as helpful as possible so I value your feedback.

Re-reading the article I do see what you mean his focus is on a lack of respect for Scripture. Perhaps I should edit my review to respond more to this direction. The one point it seemed he was saying Redemption is not accurate from a Biblical standpoint is this quote: “This creates some theological problems, for example, the whole notion of having Heroes rescue Lost Souls is problematic - doesn't the Bible teach that redemption is the work of God rather than human heroes? Moreover, is it Biblically accurate to suggest that Evil Characters like Job's Wife play a role in seeking to prevent such Lost Souls from being rescued?” This is a direct quote and seems to me to be questioning the Biblical accuracy of Redemption. This is mostly what I am responding to in my review. What are your thoughts on this?

Also what does everyone else think? Do you think I should edit the articles to focus on his point of lack of respect for Scripture or keep it as is focusing on responding to the above quote which seems more focused on Biblical accuracy?

I value everyone’s feedback. The hope is for this review to be as helpful as possible so any additional feedback anyone has both positive or corrective please post!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 12:58:08 PM by CtheTree »
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Offline Sean

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 12:54:26 PM »
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Thank you all for your feedback. Thanks Mr. Hiatus!

Sean: I completely agree with regard to changing the mind of EndersGame. That is not likely to happen nor is that the intent here. The intent is to have a alternate review that is more up to date and shows up when people search for Redemption on the internet. Saw the comment by The M that you are referring to. Did not notice that in the comments on EndersGame article before. He did a great job!

EmJayBee83: Really helpful to know on how BoardGameGeek weighs articles. I will be sure to make some additional reviews.

Regarding Biblical accuracy vs. lack of Respect for Scripture I would appreciate further details on what you mean by this and exactly why you view the angle I take as being problematic. If you feel it would be better feel free to PM me about this. I want this review to be as helpful as possible so I value your feedback.

Re-reading the article I do see what you mean his focus is on a lack of respect for Scripture. Perhaps I should edit my review to respond more to this direction. The one point it seemed he was saying Redemption is not accurate from a Biblical standpoint is this quote: “This creates some theological problems, for example, the whole notion of having Heroes rescue Lost Souls is problematic - doesn't the Bible teach that redemption is the work of God rather than human heroes? Moreover, is it Biblically accurate to suggest that Evil Characters like Job's Wife play a role in seeking to prevent such Lost Souls from being rescued?” This is a direct quote and seems to me to be questioning the Biblical accuracy of Redemption. This is mostly what I am responding to in my review. What are your thoughts on this? Also what does everyone else think? Do you think I should edit the articles to focus on his point of lack of respect for Scripture or keep it as is focusing on responding to the above quote which seems more focused on Biblical accuracy?

I value everyone’s feedback. The hope is for this review to be as helpful as possible so any additional feedback anyone has both positive or corrective please post!

In any review, I would steer clear of having it be a response to another review.  You can address the issue without referencing any kind of previous review.
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Offline ReyZen

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 01:34:14 PM »
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Incredible initiative Chad!!! Kudos to you for starting this thread. I have sticky'ed it.

Our priority is to populate the review site with as many reviews from as many players. Any other stuff like rebuttals and such should be given less but good priority.

Thanks and Godbless for fighting for your game, Redemption jedi!

Peace and Blessings.
"Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace." --- Francis of Assisi

Offline Watchman

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 06:14:45 PM »
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What if I told you all that I’m Endersgamer and wrote that review?
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Offline CtheTree

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 06:58:05 PM »
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Sean: Thank you for this advice. You are correct. A review should be of the game itself and not just a response to a past review. I have edited the review I wrote to make sure it is not just a rebuttal. Let me know if you think this edited version is better.

ReyZen: Thank you for sticky’Ing the thread and for your encouragement!

Watchman: Well I would say I am encouraged to see that your opinions on Redemption have changed and now you are one of the biggest retailers and proponents of the game! Thanks!

Also one IMPORTANT note for everybody who goes to the review: You can like the review on the bottom of the page but be sure to press the green thumb button at the TOP of the page. The recommend button is the one that boosts the review.

Any further feedback anyone has would be appreciated especially on the edited version of the review. Thanks!

« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:23:55 PM by CtheTree »
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 06:59:42 PM »
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I’m not him. I was just wondering what you all would think if I was. 😂
Redemption is Here! Visit Your Turn Games today!

Offline Kor

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2020, 12:05:25 AM »
+2
I think the real question is how is the complexity only a 2.59/5????

Probably the only game that I've played for 15+ years, read the rulebook, reg, orcid, ordir, asked dozens of questions on the message boards/discord and still am unsure about games situations/interactions sometimes.
Life is what you make of it.

Offline Sean

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2020, 07:26:57 PM »
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I just did a search in Google of "redemption ccg" and the first return is a link to Cactus followed by youtube videos and then wikipedia and then you get the board game geek page that describes and gives a history of Redemption, and then you get the review by EndersGame.  So while not the first return its still high on the list.  And I also do plenty of searches for Cactus and google's algorithm will adjust for that so my results may not be what others results would be.

I say all that to point out the wikipedia page.  That is also a page that we can update with history and information.
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Offline RyanErtmer

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Offline CtheTree

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2020, 11:21:46 PM »
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Sean: Fantastic point regarding the Redemption Wikipedia page!

RyanErtmer: That is really funny! Another example of why the Redemption community needs to go onto Board Game Geek and leave ratings along with accurate comments!

I have noticed some people leaving 10 star ratings and comments on Board Game Geek for Redemption! Nice work! Also thanks for recommending the review I wrote! Let’s keep it up.
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Offline emonier

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2020, 09:53:59 PM »
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What if I told you all that I’m Endersgamer and wrote that review?

I knew it! You rascal! :police:

Offline CtheTree

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2020, 01:56:35 PM »
+1
UPDATE: EndersGame actually responded to my recent review of Redemption on Board Game Geek. A very pleasant response!

I responded as well and also directed people to check out the new Redemption YouTube review by Kohdok. You can check out the responses here: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2354404/redemption-wonderful-improving-game-recent-review.

Also if you have not already checked out the YouTube Redemption review by the experienced game reviewer Kohdok, check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atRRj31lYVU&feature=youtu.be.

Glad to see a response from EndersGame who wrote that critical review of Redemption 12 years ago.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 02:01:44 PM by CtheTree »
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Offline Reth

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Re: Redemption Review on Board Game Geek- A Problem and Solution
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2020, 02:29:54 PM »
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Cool!  :thumbup: