Author Topic: Help getting back to Redemption  (Read 709 times)

Offline galadgawyn

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Help getting back to Redemption
« on: April 14, 2020, 04:53:31 AM »
+1
I could use some good advice on a couple areas here. 

For context, I used to be very active in Redemption but marriage and 5 kids put that on hiatus.  Now my kids are old enough and starting to learn the game.  I have an extensive collection of cards up through disciples, one box of: The Early Church, The Persecuted Church, Cloud of Witnesses, and almost none of sets after that.  I last seriously played right before clay brigade was introduced. 
Right now my kids are earning cards from my collection to make their decks but I'm sure at some point we are going to want the newer stuff. 

So my questions are:

What are the rule changes/ what is the best way to get up to speed on what has changed in the last several years?  I've heard about some changes: reserve, new card types, banned cards, changes to negate, etc.  I'm not clear on the rules with those and any other issues I've missed.   I'm guessing that some of what I'm teaching them is now wrong. 

What would be the best way to get caught up with collection?  Buy 14+ boxes of Redemption?  That seems a bit daunting at the moment.  In the past I just got each as they came out but now that is a lot of money.  Any large buying discounts available?  I just saw that Jonesy sold a large collection on here that might have been the kind of thing I'm looking for. 

If they were to go to a tournament how important is it to have cards from newer sets to have a decent game?  I don't expect them to win most of the time but if they get obliterated every game that is not going to be a lot of fun.  Basically do old decks have any chance or do newer archetypes completely dominate?  How much does it matter?  Are there certain archetypes that are still good with minimal updating?

Lastly, if we ever get to have tournaments again because of Covid, anyone know of Redemption playgroups around Ohio?  Currently the closest listed tournament I think is the Pennsylvania Nats location, 8 hours away.  One child has asked if we could go to that, but it would be nice to find something smaller and closer first.  Within 3 hours of Dayton, Oh might be doable.  I saw almost no State or Regional tournaments listed.  Are people just waiting to see what happens with Covid and social distancing restrictions or is tournament organization and attendance just that low?

thanks for any help, sincerely Jonathan Pequignot

P.S.  It's a dream right now but I would love to see a playgroup started with their school/church friends.  prayers appreciated.

Offline Reth

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Re: Help getting back to Redemption
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2020, 07:09:08 AM »
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Hi there,

and welcome back!  :D  :thumbup:

While I cannot go into all the details (at least not right now and at once) here are some brief answers to your questions:

Regarding the rule changes I recommend to download the latest REG and check the appropriate chapters when you come across the topics e.g. during games with your kids.
The most present ones to me are: No more cascading negates and ignore has been nerved to be no longer a more or less auto battle winner when ignored ECs are already present in battle.

Banned have been the 2- and 3-liner LSs (rescue twice) and the Samual (RoA IIRC). And there have also been lots of errata - the most present ones to me are the one at Children of Light and the one regarding Mayhem Dom.

Staples more or less have become 2nd Coming as Dom and also 3 Woes as Dom.
New concepts are IMO: Reserve (as you said), Star Ability and Meeks/Non-Meek Heroes

Some good attempt to get back and catch up is maybe reading some articles at Land of Redemption and watch some recorded games of e.g. Nats of the past years on youtube as well as some recorded games to introduce newer sets (at least there should be some from TLG regarding CoW introduction etc.).

For me the best way to catch up with my collection is to pre-order all the commons of each new set (or make a good post-release deal on all of them some months after the set came out) and try to complement/complete with necessary Rares/URs on demand, depending which kind of deck I am trying to build. (There have been really great offers on the commons of each set every year, you can recap this within the Market board - just check for pre sales in different writing manners!).
Reason for me: The commons of the latest sets (latest with FoM, but maybe already with CoW) are so strong and contribute to so many themes, builds, combos, whatever that they are always a good buy - especially when getting them in deals like pre ordering or so! In addition with these commons you will also get plenty of reserve access and Star-Abilities! In addition you'll get lots of Lost Souls with great special abilities!

For tournaments I do not have much experience with but my impression is that without the newer concepts (at least reserve!) and lots of speed/access you might get obliterated quite every game! But most important is that you need lots of those extensive SAs cards of the newer sets provide (for me I recognised an increase in that with the FoM set being released back then)!

Archetypes of decks I am also not quite familiar with - but at least Throne-Offenses saw a lot of play during past years, maybe also white musicians and Ruth gets her comeback with the current set. But all of them need to be made up to date to have a chance to stand against the current meta and whats played around it (maybe time for a legacy category - limited by cards upto only certain sets like disciples or so?). This is at least my impression and opinion.

Regarding tournaments: They are currently held online via Zoom while playing in person with physical cards including deck checks etc. It started last weekend. You can check for it here.
(For me this is a pure lucky coincident of the otherwise really dramatic and terrible pandemic since it is the only chance for me playing tournaments at all - at least official ones).

Hope this might help you a little getting started! Feel free to ask further if you need some more details on one or the other topic!

Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Help getting back to Redemption
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2020, 11:03:17 AM »
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I could use some good advice on a couple areas here. 

For context, I used to be very active in Redemption but marriage and 5 kids put that on hiatus.  Now my kids are old enough and starting to learn the game.  I have an extensive collection of cards up through disciples, one box of: The Early Church, The Persecuted Church, Cloud of Witnesses, and almost none of sets after that.  I last seriously played right before clay brigade was introduced. 
Right now my kids are earning cards from my collection to make their decks but I'm sure at some point we are going to want the newer stuff. 

So my questions are:

What are the rule changes/ what is the best way to get up to speed on what has changed in the last several years?  I've heard about some changes: reserve, new card types, banned cards, changes to negate, etc.  I'm not clear on the rules with those and any other issues I've missed.   I'm guessing that some of what I'm teaching them is now wrong. 

What would be the best way to get caught up with collection?  Buy 14+ boxes of Redemption?  That seems a bit daunting at the moment.  In the past I just got each as they came out but now that is a lot of money.  Any large buying discounts available?  I just saw that Jonesy sold a large collection on here that might have been the kind of thing I'm looking for. 

If they were to go to a tournament how important is it to have cards from newer sets to have a decent game?  I don't expect them to win most of the time but if they get obliterated every game that is not going to be a lot of fun.  Basically do old decks have any chance or do newer archetypes completely dominate?  How much does it matter?  Are there certain archetypes that are still good with minimal updating?

Lastly, if we ever get to have tournaments again because of Covid, anyone know of Redemption playgroups around Ohio?  Currently the closest listed tournament I think is the Pennsylvania Nats location, 8 hours away.  One child has asked if we could go to that, but it would be nice to find something smaller and closer first.  Within 3 hours of Dayton, Oh might be doable.  I saw almost no State or Regional tournaments listed.  Are people just waiting to see what happens with Covid and social distancing restrictions or is tournament organization and attendance just that low?

thanks for any help, sincerely Jonathan Pequignot

P.S.  It's a dream right now but I would love to see a playgroup started with their school/church friends.  prayers appreciated.

YAY!  Jonathan is back!!! 

Quick run down of questions:

Ignore has been changed to a stalemate and is no longer a battle winner unless done pre-block.

Reserve is a "side-board" that allows you to have access to up to 10 extra cards without modifying the main deck "chemistry."  This started during Revelation of John and has had growing access to all colors since.

New card types.  Dual-Icon cards.  Basically you play them like you did covenant/curses in which you could target as either category in deck/discard/reserve, but once played it is that card type.

Banned Cards:  2-Liner, 3-Liner, Samuel (RA2) and Mourn and Weep (from a new set, you might not even have).

Negate Changes:  Cascade negate is no longer a thing.  So if a negate is played on a card it only negates that card and what it did compared to everything that happened after it.  So no more band in 500 people, draw 2,000 cards and then a negate is played and you put it all back.

I would have to go back and figure out what else you missed, so give me time.

Oh, one is the star (*) ability.  When you draw them in your opening hand or 3 card draw at the beginning of the turn you can show it to activate the ability.


There are collections that show up from time to time.  I know a few have gone up for sale in the last few months.  You always can get a bunch of stuff from me, but I don't have a ton of extra URs but I have a ton of stuff!  Also if you want to start a playgroup I can help getting you a good quantity of stuff to help with that if needed!

As far as tournaments go, I'm only about 4.5 hours away and you are always welcome here!  I normally host at least a State or Regional tournament here, and sometimes both. 

For the cards played during a tournament.  Some of the top tier "older metas" can still "compete" with some of the new ones, but the newer cards do tend to be quite a bit better.  Just the fact that the new cards are the only ones that have reserve access can radically make a difference in a game, as their "supply" isn't as limited.  Just getting your hands on even most of the commons and rares from the new sets will make a pretty big difference in your decks.

I'm sure there is things I missed and maybe need to expand upon, but this is the basics for your questions.

Welcome back my friend!

Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Help getting back to Redemption
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2020, 12:21:32 PM »
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Thank you for your responses. 

I think I heard there was a change with choose the blocker also? 

Still not quite getting how the reserve works.  Is there an example of that with deck building and gameplay examples?

I intend to read some of the articles but its a bit daunting trying to catch up on hundreds of articles and message board threads.

Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Help getting back to Redemption
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2020, 12:26:21 PM »
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Thank you for your responses. 

I think I heard there was a change with choose the blocker also? 

Still not quite getting how the reserve works.  Is there an example of that with deck building and gameplay examples?

I intend to read some of the articles but its a bit daunting trying to catch up on hundreds of articles and message board threads.

Ah yes, the choose the blocker:  The character you choose must now come from the opponent's territory.  So it does nerf King Amazing's block with Ahimelek now, but that really isn't a bad thing.

So for reserve access some of the easiest ones are:

Covenant of Prayer:  (basically) you may remove this card to take a card from your reserve.

Leviathan:  (basically) when your Job character blocks, take an evil Job card from reserve.

Several of the new cards say topdeck X from reserve.

Offline CtheTree

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Re: Help getting back to Redemption
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2020, 01:11:52 PM »
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Welcome back! I came back to Redemption last year as well after almost a 10 year hiatus. I had no cards though so I was even more behind than you! I got rid of my cards back in high school (although I did not have many then anyway). With this in mind I can offer some help on building a collection of the newer cards.

I have gradually over the past year built up a collection that I am happy with. You definitely want to look for on here when someone is selling their whole collection. I was able to buy someones whole collection that was almost comprehensive which was great. redemptioncollector777 is selling his whole Type 2 collection right now here: https://www.cactusforums.com/redemption-market/lost-souls-ultra-rare-and-promo-cards-for-sale-(-upto-60-off-tlg-prices)/. It has been up for a while so perhaps he would give you a sizable deal if you would send him an offer for the whole lot or at least for what he has from the newer sets. You would get almost all the new rares from him, commons, and the new lost souls. He also has several of the new promos. Sadly most of his really good ultra rares have been bought already but getting the rares, commons, lost souls, and some of the newer promos is a great start.

The other thing I would pay attention to is faithraider's (John M's) eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/faithraider10. He posts some screaming deals from time to time on ultra rares with some filler cards thrown in (when you buy from him you are basically just buying the ultra rares. It is still often worth it though depending on what he is offering). I got a UR Remnant Lost Soul, The Second Coming, Three Woes, and Shipwreck when I was first trying to start building a collection for a great price through this. Right now he is running a deal with some new Lineage of Christ cards but they are not UR's due to scarcity of LoC. Otherwise be careful on eBay. He is the only person I found who has good deals. Perhaps if you direct message him on the boards or on eBay he would make some custom UR packages for you to get you all the UR's you need at a good price to compliment what redemptioncollector777 is offering. Otherwise I got ripped off on eBay quite a bit when I was starting to build my collection. I would say avoid anyone other than faithraider on ebay.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 02:55:45 PM by CtheTree »
Christian, Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Romans 11:33-36. Editor for Land of Redemption.

Offline Reth

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Re: Help getting back to Redemption
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2020, 02:26:19 PM »
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Still not quite getting how the reserve works.  Is there an example of that with deck building and gameplay examples?

I intend to read some of the articles but its a bit daunting trying to catch up on hundreds of articles and message board threads.

No need for doing so many. You can just go for specific things you might need like this one, this one, here or here.

The Reserve is summarised here. And I'd also recommend some videos from past tournaments like this one (could not find the ones from last year nationals unfortunately - there you could see how the reserve works) or here explanatory vidoes like the ones from SignoftheStar or videos like this one or this one.
Just do some additional searches if you need to know more.

Also online play on Lackey can help yet getting back into the game where people can answer directly either in Chat or via Discord direct talk using a table there.

For purchases see also the market board where you can find offers like this, this and this (no particular order). There are several more and TLG and YTG also have an own webshop online!
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 02:29:13 PM by Reth »