Author Topic: A question (Read 4715 times)

xCaLeBx · « **on:** March 24, 2009, 02:48:01 PM »

I think this should be here.....anyways:

I was talking with my friend about respect for the church. The Question is Is it wrong to commit a PDA at church?

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:01:08 PM »

There is only one time that a non-platonic kiss(like you would to your grandmother) is acceptable in church,when the pastor says the bride and groom may kiss...the church is to be respected at all times...

soul seeker · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:09:14 PM »

As a youth pastor, yes/yes/and yes.

There are a lot of factors in this, but I will try to sum up...
   Spiritual Reasons
   1. it shows a lack of reverent fear of God and His House (1 Samuel 2: 22-25, Deut. 23:17)
   I know you are not asking about sex itself which these verses talk about, but it is still a sexual act on Holy Ground.
   2. it displays the condition of the heart...aka, the couple is not focusing on God but on each other.
   3. it is a pretty good rule of thumb: what you are comfortable with in public (especially at church) it is ten times more "affectionate" in private.

   Social Reasons:
   4. No one really wants to see it.
   5. it sounds like no boundaries are being set, and therefore will lead to more trouble.

That is just a few reasons off the cuff, and here are some quick verses that I found that may help....

Philip. 4:8 (NIV)
   Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
2 Tim. 2:22 (NIV)
   Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

SoulSaver · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:02:25 PM »

Quote

Philip. 4:8 (NIV)
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

Kissing is noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, praiseworthy, even if it's done out of marriage.

Quote

2 Tim. 2:22 (NIV)
Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Kissing isn't an evil desire! That my friend is absurd, but whatever rocks your boat.

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #4 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:10:24 PM »

Quote from: SoulSaver on March 24, 2009, 04:02:25 PM

Kissing is noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, praiseworthy, even if it's done out of marriage.

Kissing isn't an evil desire! That my friend is absurd, but whatever rocks your boat.

In the proper context I would agree...however, what is noble, right, or pure about kissing your significant other in church except when appropriate. Your focus for attending church is fellowship with other believers and communing with God. If it's not, then perhaps a priority check is in order. Also, as has been said by many multiple times, kissing can be bad for you.

Song of Songs 2:7b (NIV)
Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires

Some may say that's out of context and is meant only for heavier affection but I would contend that why are you showing any physical affection if you are not considering the one you are with as a future spouse.. so yes, sometimes kissing can be an evil desire...

soul seeker · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:14:00 PM »

Quote from: SoulSaver on March 24, 2009, 04:02:25 PM

Quote
Philip. 4:8 (NIV)
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

Kissing is noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, praiseworthy, even if it's done out of marriage.

Quote
2 Tim. 2:22 (NIV)
Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Kissing isn't an evil desire! That my friend is absurd, but whatever rocks your boat.

First, kissing is not always noble, right, pure, etc.
which leads to my second point...
He did mention kissing sure, but notice how it quickly expanded to making out and Frenching. It is better to set the bar high, then to allow "loopholes".

Kissing my wife is noble and ordained by God, but out of respect and reverent fear of God...we do not make out or french at church. The only reason we've occasionally kissed is 1. a quick goodbye if one of us is leaving for a period of time or 2. because I work in the offices below the sanctuary. Even then, I avoid that if I can.
It just isn't the place to do that unless like Brad said: during a wedding ceremony.

Finally, kissing as an evil desire is not as "absurd" as you find it. Do I list it as an evil desire...not usually, but sometimes it is. Kissing can be the first step to other things and must be proceeded with caution. Some people's intentions are not always as noble as yours.

*EDIT* Instaposted by Brad...I agree with what he said too!

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:14:45 PM »

Quote from: SoulSaver on March 24, 2009, 04:02:25 PM

..., but whatever rocks your boat.

I think the idea was not to rock the boat.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:20:01 PM »

The way I see it, put your arm around your wife at church. That's respectable to the point that not doing it is questionable. As for girlfriends and/or fiances, it depends on the social context of the church, but usually is acceptable. (Lighty) kiss her hello and goodbye, if appropriate. As for the rest, let's restrict it to the bedroom or vehicle, please.

Lawfuldog · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:21:09 PM »

Quote from: SoulSaver on March 24, 2009, 04:02:25 PM

Quote
Philip. 4:8 (NIV)
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

Kissing is noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, praiseworthy, even if it's done out of marriage.

Quote
2 Tim. 2:22 (NIV)
Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Kissing isn't an evil desire! That my friend is absurd, but whatever rocks your boat.

Agreed. Kissing can be a very noble and pure sign of affection, but I do agree that in our corrupted culture today that is usually intended for other purposes. I also agree that it is not something that should be done in a church, church is intended to love and worship our almighty God who loves us and gave us life.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2009, 05:34:31 PM »

and now it changed to PDA. XD Caleb, just make a list don't change it on us.

I don't see anything wrong with putting your arm around your loved one, holding hands, Lightly kissing, or anything else. That isn't gonna take away from God, nor is it going to arouse your significant other to the point neither of you are focusing on what you came to church for. My parents hold on each other sometimes at church so I see nothing wrong with it.

Making out and frenching would be just No. I'd also throw in necking and other such things. Those WILL get you distracted from what you are doing, or supposed to be doing which is focusing on God and fellowshipping with your brothers and sisters in Christ. I'd also like to say it will vary from person to person. Some people can get excited but just being held while others it takes alot more. So it'll be case to case but make sure to stay away from anything YOU know will distract you. Save it for somewhere less reverant, like walmart.

crustpope · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2009, 11:43:31 PM »

or a redemption tournament

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:38:16 AM »

Quote from: crustpope on March 24, 2009, 11:43:31 PM

or a redemption tournament

Yes, Very yes.

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2009, 10:00:49 AM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on March 25, 2009, 01:38:16 AM

Quote from: crustpope on March 24, 2009, 11:43:31 PM
or a redemption tournament
Yes, Very yes.

*mumbles about sleeping with her at tournament* *coughjoshcough*

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2009, 02:08:24 PM »

Hey when you live that far away and don't have the ability to randomly visit, you hang out where you can get it, even if you are drop dead tired :-p.

brederic · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:57:22 PM »

I thought kissing in church was required?!?

Quote from: Romans 16:16 NKJV

Greet one another with a holy kiss. The churches of Christ greet you.

Quote from: 1 Corinthians 16:20 NKJV

All the brethren greet you. Greet one another with a holy kiss.

Quote from: 1 Peter 5:14 NKJV

Greet one another with a kiss of love. Peace to you all who are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

[Just stirring the pot here]

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2009, 05:44:42 PM »

The key word for the first two verses is "Holy" kiss. Very few kisses between teenage boys and girls are holy. Even for adults this would be a difficult requirement to meet, unless we are talking about Wesley and Buttercup.

As for the third verse, I would check whether the "love" is referring to agape, phileo, or eros. My guess is that it is one of the first two. Most kissing falls under the last one, especially when you are using your tongue.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:06:46 PM »

So that is where the ability to get excited comes from... (Eros...to...well adults know the word).

Agreed, our society as perverted the kiss.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2009, 10:37:26 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 25, 2009, 05:44:42 PM

Very few kisses between teenage boys and girls are holy.

Because they aren't as skilled in the matter as I am. (My first kiss was actually absolutely perfect).

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2009, 10:49:54 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on March 25, 2009, 10:37:26 PM

Because they aren't as skilled in the matter as I am. (My first kiss was actually absolutely perfect).

Something that is Holy would point toward God rather than oneself.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:58:18 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 25, 2009, 05:44:42 PM

As for the third verse, I would check whether the "love" is referring to agape, phileo, or eros. My guess is that it is one of the first two. Most kissing falls under the last one, especially when you are using your tongue.

This paragraph--especially the last sentence--is practically perfect in every way. Well played, sir. Well played.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #20 on:** March 26, 2009, 02:10:37 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 25, 2009, 10:49:54 PM

Quote from: Colin Michael on March 25, 2009, 10:37:26 PM
Because they aren't as skilled in the matter as I am. (My first kiss was actually absolutely perfect).

Something that is Holy would point toward God rather than oneself.

This is not necessarily true.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:13:25 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on March 26, 2009, 02:10:37 AM

This is not necessarily true.

You would need to provide a counterexample to prove you point.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #22 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:17:22 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 26, 2009, 04:13:25 PM

Quote from: Colin Michael on March 26, 2009, 02:10:37 AM
This is not necessarily true.

You would need to provide a counterexample to prove you point.

I would say that which is "holy" is that which is "declared" holy or sacred by God, not necessarily something that "points" to God.

And I would have to give God the full credit for making my first kiss as holy as it was.

brederic · « **Reply #23 on:** October 01, 2009, 01:20:37 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on March 25, 2009, 05:44:42 PM

The key word for the first two verses is "Holy" kiss. Very few kisses between teenage boys and girls are holy. Even for adults this would be a difficult requirement to meet, unless we are talking about Wesley and Buttercup.

As for the third verse, I would check whether the "love" is referring to agape, phileo, or eros. My guess is that it is one of the first two. Most kissing falls under the last one, especially when you are using your tongue.

Agreed on all points. It's AGAPE, btw.

Incidentally, when I was worshiping in Romania, where kisses (on the cheeks) are the customary greeting, these commands took on a very literal meaning that took some getting used to for this American fish out of water.

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #24 on:** October 01, 2009, 04:47:50 PM »

talk about necroposting :p

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Author Topic: A question (Read 4715 times)

xCaLeBx

SoulSaver

xCaLeBx