Author Topic: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"  (Read 1697 times)

Offline bmc25

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Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« on: May 27, 2016, 08:40:17 AM »
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I have a very small chance of being able to go to nationals this year. It would be the first tournament that I have attended since Nats 2008. I have tried to stay somewhat current, but it just has not been possible to keep up completely, and thus I really do not have many of the newer cards.

I have some of "The Early Church" but none of "The Persecuted Church" or "Clouds of Witnesses."

So it made me curious, What would the most competitive deck look like that is made up of only cards from the older sets?

Thanks
Benjamin Campbell

Offline Jonesy

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 08:46:51 AM »
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I am not sure but Martin runs battle by the numbers still.

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2016, 08:48:19 AM »
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I am not sure but Martin runs battle by the numbers still.
Is the deck competitive against other top decks?

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 08:58:39 AM »
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 08:59:36 AM »
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No. Even throwback strategies continue to incorporate new cards.
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Offline Red

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 09:12:44 AM »
+1
The best bet is to play fight by the numbers banding if you cannot procure any new cards. You can remain somewhat competitive but the odds of being the champion are low, but at this point the fun and fellowship is worth it even if you aren't going to be very competitive.
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Offline h20tor

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2016, 09:22:44 AM »
+1
No. Even throwback strategies continue to incorporate new cards.

I would say recent card additions/ new sets make for more competitive decks, but some of those old cards can throw people for loops when they are expecting the new cards and seeing the old cards instead.

I would say it can still be competitive, but chances are the newer cards will rock your world. What I do to avoid getting a ton of new cards was build a deck out of old and if there were newer cards that could replace older ones or add to it to make the deck better, I just got those cards.

When I got back into the game I was playing angels and prophets until I could slower form new decks over time.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2016, 09:41:10 AM »
+1
Josiah's deck had exactly one card from Early Church and no cards from Persecuted Church, and he finished second last year.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2016, 09:41:55 AM »
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It's not exactly accurate to say people are "expecting new cards" and are thrown for a loop when an older card is played. The best players actually know most or all cards in existence off the top of their head that could possibly be used, and which ones are so bad they're going to win anyway if their opponent is running them.

Your second sentence is basically how most people do it. Every set, if you continue playing the same deck, maybe only 1 or 2 new cards will make it in, but they'll be a HUGE upgrade. Two sets without a huge upgrade while everyone else has upgraded twice knocks you out of "competitive."
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Josh

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2016, 09:51:49 AM »
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Do you have the 2011 FooF/RoA cards?  If you do, another option would be to go Judges/Assyrians-Magicians and include some evil fortress killers like ASA/Shipwreck to snipe potential Coliseums.  Honestly, Judges/Pale Green is probably still a top deck, even with the printing of Coliseum, because:

1. Most players don't play new counters when they are printed
2. Your opponent has to draw Coliseum before you've used Sam's Edict, Sword Against Sword, Ehud's Dagger, etc.  This is a reason T1 players would be hesitant to play it
3. You can run CWD and it barely affects your deck at all
4. You can always use Angel With Secret Name to get your CBN battlewinners (and they can be played on Jair, no less)
5. ASA can be recurred with Mist
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2016, 10:00:20 AM »
+2
+1

Gabe's Ruthless Stuff deck from National's only uses 3 newer cards (DragonRaid, Elymas and The Serpent).

There's certainly a few cards in the new set that could be swapped in as upgrades, but I'm pretty sure that deck would still do fairly well "as is" in the hands of a good player.
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Offline bmc25

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2016, 10:21:22 AM »
+1
Thanks guys for the many thoughts.

I do have almost everything pre-The early Church.

I currently have four complete decks. I have a 1) Judges/Assyrian/Magicians deck, 2) a prophets/angels deck, 3) an experimental fun deck, and 4) a fun Abom site deck.

Should I add a couple things to my judges/Assyrian deck. Like maybe the suggested mist or just throw in Shipwreck?

Run a similar copy of the above posted decks.

Update a prophets/angels deck?
Benjamin Campbell

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2016, 10:25:12 AM »
+2
An Assyrian deck is probably the one deck that doesn't really need a Shipwreck because of ASA.

Mist is definitely a strong add as is Elymas from Early Church.

Faith of Samson from the new CoW set is a must add to Judges decks IMO.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2016, 10:29:24 AM »
+2
Nimrod, the Might is probably worth adding to an Assyrian defense.
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2016, 10:47:57 AM »
+4
Since it sounds like you have a good starting point on a couple of decks, you should target a handful of cards you want for those and then if you have older but higher end stuff to trade, someone might have what you need to get over that "competitive" hump.  I'm also a big advocate for playing something you know.  I've beaten better decks because the people playing them didn't know how to run them without mistakes.

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Re: Can you be competitive without the "Newer cards?"
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2016, 12:13:58 PM »
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It's really amazing how good judges/magicians/assyrians still are to this day. Personally placing 1st and knowing others to place 1st in tournaments with the archetype.

That being said though the new set offers the very most to nearly every kind of deck you could build. There is really no limit on speed and the chances of a completely new kind of deck being able to win nationals. This is where the best players will know the options as well as the costs and may be forced to choose the most viable options "souly" related to the objective, rescuing souls.

Here are some deck types I could see being exceptional with only a few new cards from the new set:

Clay with some Faith based enhancements (probably less than 6$ tlg)
Ot red with judges or royalty splashed (again maybe 5-10$ tlg)
Priests with a judges splash (new samuel, Aaron's staff, dutiful priest, gifts and offerings 6$ tlg)
Judges magicians Assyrians (with Nimrod, Joshua, Faith of Gideon, Faith of Samson maybe 15$ tlg)
A philistine def with Acish 1$
Egyptians with their new amazing cards might run 10$ or less than 50$ with Broken Covenant

All this said I'm just tossing out how for very inexpensive from www.threelionsgaming.com you can pick up new cards which can make a huge difference in decks with cards you most likely already own. All of these have national winning potentials in their own ways including more due to the diversity of this great set! :-)

 


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