Author Topic: My Anti-Meta Deck help... (Read 10614 times)

megamanlan · « **Reply #50 on:** February 19, 2012, 06:00:02 PM »

Not how I play Warfare. I play it to Mike which makes it CBN.
Also my combo for winning is Mike+Wheel+AS

Quote from: galadgawyn on February 19, 2012, 03:36:45 PM

First of all the list of enhancements were possible suggestions not all cards to definitely add because I didn't know what you had available. It seemed possible that you might not have a full collection because you didn't include obvious choices (The Strong Angel) and have things like The First Seal in there. You can be immune all day long on offence but it wont help you win. Any decent defence is fine with that. With Warfare, you have to get initiative to play it (unlikely in this deck), have it not be negated, and played post block defences will still have many good options to stop it. For Wheat and Tares that was an option primarily if you chose to include an extra NT angel or 2. Captains Sword is not trash; though not the best, it would have Captain or Michael beat your Gomer+KoT band which you seemed to think was one of your biggest problems.

Captains Sword is useless because I'm using the Warriors version. And I would never give up a RA willingly. Also, The First Seal is useful, because most Defenses will just negate it, but the First Seal is CBI. In case u don't know if I'm Immune to u, ur not winning and can't affect me unless ur card states 'Regardless of Immunity' and there is only a handful of cards that do that.

Quote
As to Romans destroy Jerusalem, it's not good in this meta because not many people are running NT Heroes.

This is just false. One of the best decks is still some variation on TGT and a lot of people uses mutliple fortresses. It also gives a +6 for your first strike Romans.

So I should drop a Battlewinner for a card that could at best only help in a handful of situations?

Don't think so. I didn't say that the cards didn't exist, just that it was unlikely that opponents will play them. You did title this "Anti-Meta" after all. People rarely play with more than one capture card that can target angels and sometimes none at all.

Actually most Capture cards that are currently being played are 'Capture a Hero' and the main way I can lose my Mike Combo is him being captured. (that is if I don't beat my opponent using Angel's Sword 1st) This is my backup plan to ensure it's not a problem.

I think you underestimate Pilate's ability and it was also to give you another Character with some actual toughness against cards like Thad, Crown of Thorns, Gates of Sam, etc.

I think you greatly overestimate Ortho's ability. Just about every good offence will have most of the cards in that offence be able to stop him.

I think you're overestimating Pilate's usefulness. I have more Characters that could help me and have 1st Strike than him. And I know Ortho is easy to stop, varying... But you underestimate his possibilities too.
Quote
Do u know what Mildewed House does?

Ummm yes, its basically worthless. It sets aside a hero for 2 turns and good offences have plenty of heros so that won't matter. And the opponent will think "you have to give me a lost soul to set-aside my hero for 2 turns? Yeah I'll make that trade!"

Yes, but if I can kick out one of his best cards for 2 turns, I'd like that too. But as I said, it may go out because I like my Satan's Seat better.

Quote
On LS's, Site-guard is really dumb to play, trust me I used to play it.
Then I don't think you knew how to use it. The ability to add another character to battle after the opponent plays a CBN battle winner, is very strong. So much that you might want to add Gates of Hell, also. It can often be the difference between them winning or not. Site remover and Site doubler help with the lost soul manipulation and your sites.

sorry, but you don't get that many cards kill guards. Dragon Raid for example. Also, the card states that the Hero must have access to that Site (it must be a RA at that site) to throw it into battle. And why would I want to lose a Character for who knows how long? Also, your idea of Site mannipulation isnt the same around here. Pulling LS's out of Sites isn't a good idea unless u have a lot of LS's that activate when they are put in a Site. Site Doubler is okay though, I just don't have room.

Hormah would be better if you had RDJ in to get rid of Philistine Outpost and 2-liner would be better if you had another way to get rid of it like Just a Hireling. Speaking of which, I think pairing the Romans with some Pharisees is another good option.

I have a couple ways of getting rid of it. (Shuffler, Hormah, Burial, etc)

SomeKittens · « **Reply #51 on:** February 19, 2012, 07:00:07 PM »

Just out of curiosity, have any changes been made to this deck?

Wings of Music · « **Reply #52 on:** February 19, 2012, 07:21:36 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on February 19, 2012, 06:00:02 PM

Not how I play Warfare. I play it to Mike which makes it CBN.
Also my combo for winning is Mike+Wheel+AS

I have a hard time seeing that come out with an Angels offense. Angel's lack the speed to get out your combo, If you want to build your deck around this by all means do it, but perhaps splash in another brigade for speed. Additionally there are a lot more things that silver has to offer, namely Captain banding chains, and TSA (IMO he's the best Hero in the game when you get him early.

Captains Sword is useless because I'm using the Warriors version. And I would never give up a RA willingly. Also, The First Seal is useful, because most Defenses will just negate it, but the First Seal is CBI. In case u don't know if I'm Immune to u, ur not winning and can't affect me unless ur card states 'Regardless of Immunity' and there is only a handful of cards that do that.

Agreed the warriors version isn't that useful, sooooo why not acquire the kings version? The problem with immunity and ignore (if not payed pre-block) is that it gives you opponent initiative to do all sorts of nasty things in your territory, sure their wrath of Satan didn't kill the guy you played it on, but it did kill everyone else in your territory, and you don't have the initiative to negate it.

Actually most Capture cards that are currently being played are 'Capture a Hero' and the main way I can lose my Mike Combo is him being captured. (that is if I don't beat my opponent using Angel's Sword 1st) This is my backup plan to ensure it's not a problem.

The most prominant meta captures are Writ and Charms, and they only capture humans, capture enhancements that can target angels aren't really found meta decks, the ones you are trying to counter.

I think you're overestimating Pilate's usefulness. I have more Characters that could help me and have 1st Strike than him. And I know Ortho is easy to stop, varying... But you underestimate his possibilities too.

I have found Otho to be essentially without value in all the times I have played him, in all the games that I got to use him he was interrupted or negated. Pilate's ability is incredibly versatile and his numbers can be very helpful particularly against Thad and TSA.

Yes, but if I can kick out one of his best cards for 2 turns, I'd like that too. But as I said, it may go out because I like my Satan's Seat better.

Why not put in another defensive card instead? That way you can block easier and not have to worry about giving up a soul.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #53 on:** February 20, 2012, 12:24:51 AM »

Quote

Not how I play Warfare. I play it to Mike which makes it CBN.
Also my combo for winning is Mike+Wheel+AS

So a 12/8 gets initiative... Even if you used Angel's Sword, you have a slim chance of getting this every game, and even if you do, immunity is NOT a battle winner.
And just a question, why did you ask for advice on this deck? Honestly from this deck list the majority, if not all, of the people who gave advice on your deck seem more qualified than you, yet you disrespect their advice, or completely throw it out.

megamanlan · « **Reply #54 on:** February 20, 2012, 01:30:23 PM »

Mostly because I have been requesting help on which of the Banding guys to put in. Usually I don't like asking for help on my main deck for that reason.

Also, I only posted the deck so others can see what I have in so They can let me
Know which card I should put in for banding.

And for all of your information, I can usually pull my Mike Combo quickly. (within a couple turns) Angels are faster then people give them credit for, but they aren't incredibly fast either. It would be best if I can find a Defense that is really fast to help my angels.
Also, Satan's Seat is in my deck currently.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #55 on:** February 20, 2012, 03:04:49 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on February 20, 2012, 01:30:23 PM

I only posted the deck so others can see what I have in so They can let me Know which card I should put in for banding.
In that case I would add band to blue Seraphim, Tribal Elder, Rachael, and Jacob, that's one of the bigger captain banding chains out there. Of course you can opt for a smaller version of that chain, or a different banding chain.

It would be best if I can find a Defense that is really fast to help my angels.
Then I would cut out some emperors and add in some pharisees.

megamanlan · « **Reply #56 on:** February 20, 2012, 03:15:30 PM »

Pharisees aren't that fast. I should know, I play them in another deck.

The problem w/ that is that I use the new Cherubim, but I think your thinking of Seraphim. But it's not good, similar with Tribal Elder. The reason why I asked is to have a chain that no one can just beat by the numbers.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #57 on:** February 20, 2012, 04:31:45 PM »

If you don't want to switch out a lot to make the defense faster you could add Sabbath Breaker and take out Satan's Seat. I would also seriously consider adding RDJ instead of Wrath and here is why:

RDJ
Can wipes out an entire offense +
CBN+
Works only against NT heroes -
Doesn't hit many of your heroes and Forts +
Ortho Fodder if unusable +
Pretty much has to be played off Naaman's Chariot and Horses -

Wrath
Can be negated on anyone you play it on -
Pretty much has to be played either on scribe or off Naaman's Chariot with (with Rome in play). -
Works against all heroes +
Can wipe out an entire offense +
Kills your offense -
Ortho Fodder if unusable +

I am not a fan of things that can be negated and things that kill my offense so I would rather have RDJ. Just my thoughts.

Master Q · « **Reply #58 on:** February 20, 2012, 04:49:55 PM »

On defense, you're not going to get to play any of your evil enhancements, except maybe on Scribe, but yeah, they'd get interrupted and/or negated on him. I'd switch Cov of Palestine with Confusion o' Mind or RBD, Mildewed House with Unholy Writ, Ortho with Entrapping Pharisees, Israel Pays Tribute with Namaan's C + H, Expelling the Jews with Unknown Nation or Pretension, Satan's Seat with Proud Pharisee, Night Raid with Just a Hireling, Wrath o' Satan with False Peace, Rome with Herod's Temple, Galba with King Pekahiah, and Terrifying Beast with Pharisees or Sabbath Breaker.

On offense, it's practically a crime to not use TSA in an all-silver deck, since he stops more than Cap (and I know you have one). I would switch out the Destroyer for him. I would also switch out the Attending Angel for Paladin the Fighter. I would also switch out The First Seal for either Fire, Smoke, and Sulfur or Army of the Lord. I would also switch out Angel at Shur for the Angel under the Oak, since his draw 2 is huge. I'd also switch Live Coal for Godspeed, and Jacob with Simeon (wa), since Jacob to anything but Cap will probably be shut off, and then you'll have nothing to play on him.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #59 on:** February 20, 2012, 05:16:23 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on February 20, 2012, 03:15:30 PM

Pharisees aren't that fast. I should know, I play them in another deck.
Pharisees aren't fast? They are one of the fastest defenses out there. Proud Pharisee, one of the best characters in the game is a D2, Sabbath Breaker would be a D3, leave in Vittles and that's a D2 or 3. Tenants Kill the Son is D1 and win, and Pretension is D2 and win. That makes for a total of about 10 cards drawn, and off of cards that would be good, in most cases, even without the drawing.

The problem w/ that is that I use the new Cherubim, but I think your thinking of Seraphim. But it's not good, similar with Tribal Elder. The reason why I asked is to have a chain that no one can just beat by the numbers.
You asked for a banding, I was just making a suggestion.

EDIT: Horses on an emperor is another D2.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #60 on:** February 20, 2012, 08:44:14 PM »

Quote

Angels are faster then people give them credit for, but they aren't incredibly fast either. It would be best if I can find a Defense that is really fast to help my angels.

Quote

Pharisees aren't that fast. I should know, I play them in another deck.

I think it's ironic how you say Pharisees are slow, and Angels are faster than people think...

SomeKittens · « **Reply #61 on:** February 21, 2012, 12:43:55 PM »

I agree with Hiatus. There's a lot of really good players offering good advice, and you're rejecting it all. Phars are one of, if not the, fastest defense in Redemption. Angels really aren't that fast, and expecting to get inish with a 12/8 is crazy talk.

On top of it all, this really isn't an "anti-meta" deck. This is Angels/Romans with a few arts that are mean. Heck, the thing that's the most anti-meta about this is RDJ, which you don't even have... This is why you got so many people saying "change the offense," as Silver isn't very good against meta defenses. (once again, the strongest anti-meta Angels put forward is TSA, which you don't have).

megamanlan · « **Reply #62 on:** February 21, 2012, 05:57:58 PM »

@Master Q: I don't have the good TSA, only the Kings one.

Also, I'm mainly keeping to Romans, not swapping the Characters. (Im trying to find a way to put Breaker in) I'd never drop Live Coal or Expelling the Jews because they are interrupts/negates. That and Godspeed is junky at best. Also, I'm looking at using Abe's Desendent and Jacob is quiet useful otherwise too a bit more than Simeon. (I only have 2 prophets)

I do need mainly Sites and wouldn't drop Satan's Seat because it stops Thad/Simon the Zealot and gives me the power to kill most of my Opponent Site Access cards.

Also, I did just add RdJ into the deck, and am thinking of dropping Ortho.

Pretension can't win a battle. It states in a territory. I would throw a CoM in if I had it, it's better than CwD in this Deck. Angels can still take on most of the Meta Defenses. And the reason why I'm rejecting their advice is because they are suggesting cards that I've used before and (for the most part) have and have found it's not a good as most people think for Offense, I have been playing Angels since I started when TeXP came out.
And as I said, Angels Sword gives inish.

@Hitaus: If you think that Angels are really slow then I've Probally not played a good Angel deck. A bad Angel deck doesn't run fast, mine goes faster and gets my combos out faster than my opponents. And if Pharisees are so good then why aren't they currently played?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #63 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:08:04 PM »

Mildewed House only works after a successful rescue attempt, but is great. Pretension works before the attempt, and lets you draw, but isn't good.

Wut?

Wings of Music · « **Reply #64 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:14:35 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on February 21, 2012, 05:57:58 PM

I don't have the good TSA, only the Kings one.
Throw in Israelite archer to band to TSA and you're still in good shape

A bad Angel deck doesn't run fast, mine goes faster and gets my combos out faster than my opponents.
What are your opponents running then?

And if Pharisees are so good then why aren't they currently played?
If Roman's and Angels are so good why are you the only one playing them? Because I see more pharisees played than either Roman's or Angels.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #65 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:20:43 PM »

Yeah, who plays TGT/Red anyway....

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #66 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:21:05 PM »

Quote

I do need mainly Sites and wouldn't drop Satan's Seat because it stops Thad/Simon the Zealot and gives me the power to kill most of my Opponent Site Access cards.

My Lord and My God.
Also in this "meta" deck, you should not be worried about stopping Disciples, but more so Samuel, Angels/Judges, Isaiah, Joseph and friends, and TGT.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #67 on:** February 22, 2012, 06:22:40 PM »

You only have four sites? That does not a lockout make. Heck, that's barely site-stall.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #68 on:** February 22, 2012, 07:00:07 PM »

Either add more sites (not recommended), or take the sites you have out for some Pharisees and TSA (recommended).

megamanlan · « **Reply #69 on:** February 22, 2012, 09:22:23 PM »

The reason I have Sites is because my EC's come when they are useless. I can force Sites out of my deck faster.

@Master Q So then how do you expect for me to stop any cards my Opponent plays?

Wings of Music · « **Reply #70 on:** February 23, 2012, 01:51:48 AM »

Quote from: megamanlan on February 22, 2012, 09:22:23 PM

The reason I have Sites is because my EC's come when they are useless.

What exactly do you mean? I'm sorry it's a little late where right now and I'm a bit confused.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #71 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:55:24 AM »

Quote from: megamanlan on February 22, 2012, 09:22:23 PM

The reason I have Sites is because my EC's come when they are useless. I can force Sites out of my deck faster.

@Master Q So then how do you expect for me to stop any cards my Opponent plays?

Then add Well Reopened to play off of Jacob.

megamanlan · « **Reply #72 on:** March 01, 2012, 02:01:18 PM »

That does help, but I do have AoW to help pull them too.

Does anyone know where I can find where I can find the 3 best decks out there? (Aka the 3 Meta decks going around)

pilgrim14 · « **Reply #73 on:** March 01, 2012, 07:31:09 PM »

here: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/deck-concepts/going-to-the-doctor-a-six-month-checkup-on-the-redemption-meta/

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #74 on:** March 01, 2012, 10:30:20 PM »

If you're looking for an actual decklist, I'd just try searching the T-1 deck ideas board. There aren't any on the first two pages, but they'll be there somewhere. Just bear in mind, while all Geneptians and Gardenciples decks are pretty much there same, there are many ways to play a Samuel offense.

News:

Author Topic: My Anti-Meta Deck help... (Read 10614 times)

TheHobbit13