Author Topic: Most dependable longest lasting offence award  (Read 5331 times)

Offline cookie monster

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Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« on: December 26, 2012, 02:10:37 PM »
0
I want to know what you think the most dependable longest lasting offence in the game is, Try to look at:
 -how many defenses can counter it,
 -How good of a draw does it need,
 -how many cards have to get discarded for the offence to lose its grip.
 -How dependable it is
 -how consistent it is

If you agree with someone else, just
+ 1 it. I will keep track of which offence is most popular.

Most popular is: FBTNB (6)   

Mentions:
A-bomb (3)
Sam (3)
TGT (2)
The deck (2)
Genesis (2)
FBTNB Dan (2)
Disciples (2)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 10:43:28 AM by cookie monster »
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Offline wyatt_marcum

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 02:17:40 PM »
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Thy is pretty fools. Especially with the current meta. Most Will say Sam offence is best though but a decent capturing defence can wipe it out.
これは現実の生活ですか。これはただのファンタジーですか。土地のスライドは、現実からの脱出でキャッチ。あなたの目を開きます。見て、空とを参照してください。私はちょうど貧しい少年、同情は要りませんので、私

Offline cookie monster

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 02:21:31 PM »
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Thy is pretty fools. Especially with the current meta. Most Will say Sam offence is best though but a decent capturing defence can wipe it out.

I agree, Sam is good but can be very hit-or-miss sometimes. That is why i did not just start with sam as best offence.

In your opinion, what is most consistent?
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Offline wyatt_marcum

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 02:23:40 PM »
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The thy is petty fools thing was suppposed to be TGT is pretty cool. Sorry. My thumbs are too big for thos phone.
これは現実の生活ですか。これはただのファンタジーですか。土地のスライドは、現実からの脱出でキャッチ。あなたの目を開きます。見て、空とを参照してください。私はちょうど貧しい少年、同情は要りませんので、私

Offline cookie monster

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 02:26:19 PM »
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The thy is petty fools thing was suppposed to be TGT is pretty cool. Sorry. My thumbs are too big for thos phone.

I was wondering what that was supposed to mean ::)
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Offline CJSports

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 02:28:20 PM »
+3
I think the best and most consistent offense in the game for the past couple years is FBTNB. It's been viable for a long time and holds its own in tier A and it's been around since Kings.
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Offline Red

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 02:32:37 PM »
+1
TGT/The Deck are without a doubt the best decks in the current metagame.
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Offline jbeers285

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Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 02:36:05 PM »
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TGT/The Deck are without a doubt the best decks in the current metagame.

I believe that's true but can run of steam quickly if you don't get your souls quickly
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Offline Red

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 02:37:21 PM »
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If the souls aren't gotten quickly you lose no matter what you use.
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Offline CJSports

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 02:38:26 PM »
+2
Defense Heavy deck beg to differ. Especially A-Bom. The long the game for them the better.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 10:08:50 PM »
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Why is everyone on the ABOMB train lately? Is it because of the new cards?
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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 10:32:34 PM »
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Why is everyone on the ABOMB train lately? Is it because of the new cards?

That is a good question, until this I have not heard of many A-bomb decks, and have never seen good A-bomb deck in a tournament.
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Offline KingLeo

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 10:34:17 PM »
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Im in favor of phillies and herods!!!

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 10:44:00 PM »
0
Im in favor of phillies and herods!!!

KingLeo 8)

If this thread were for defenses then I might agree with you, but this thread is for offence.
Now that I think about it does A-bomb count as offence?
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Offline wyatt_marcum

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2012, 01:09:24 AM »
-1
A-bomb uses offence and defence to hurt the territory. Hard to build I've heard.
これは現実の生活ですか。これはただのファンタジーですか。土地のスライドは、現実からの脱出でキャッチ。あなたの目を開きます。見て、空とを参照してください。私はちょうど貧しい少年、同情は要りませんので、私

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2012, 01:34:26 AM »
+2
As far as long-lasting goes, A-Bomb is king. It's basically infinite discarding of your opponent's cards. However, it certainly isn't the most dependable. There are a load of cards that discard it, and also plenty that simply make it not work, like CWD to shut down Joiada/Feasting. The other issue is it's not fast enough. If you can hold out, you'll win the game (or time out). If you have too slow of a start, it can kill you.

Honestly, I think Genesis is the most dependable and longest lasting. Joseph can be recurred a hundred times, and you can recur CBN enhancements with Asher. Eventually, they are going to fall. Again, the issue is with speed, which is why Genesis isn't top tier IMO. But it is certainly both dependable and long lasting. It's pretty easy to stall against though, so be prepared to get Uzzah blocked, but Genesis makes for a powerful mid and late game.

FBTNB is fantastic. I'm not sure I'd say it's long lasting though--pick off a few of the right heroes, and you'll turn the game around. Certainly dependable though. You have a myriad of options that you will draw. I also consider The Deck to be a subformat of FBTNB, BTW. Early game is great, mid-game still strong. There shouldn't be much of a late game, but they probably exhausted most of their resources. Just be wary of Grapes.

Overall, they all have strengths and weaknesses. One's defensive heavy, one's balanced, and one is offensive-heavy. Your choice. If I had to choose a single winner specifically for "longest-lasting most dependable" though, I'd probably give it to Genesis, though I definitely wouldn't say it's the best offense due to it's slow start.

Now that I think about it does A-bomb count as offence?
A-Bomb may be an evil card, but it can wreck a defense. Just pop it in their territory and use your heroes to force them to draw, and then proceed to discard massive amounts of evil characters. Or artifacts, fortresses, or even heroes. The greatest thing about A-Bomb is it's versatility.

Offline CJSports

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2012, 08:40:13 AM »
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I know it's off-topic but my brother grabbed 3rd at nats with an A-Bom deck and if he had 5 more minutes in his game against Soulseeker, he might've won and grabbed first. He ended up with a timed win which dropped him. Just saying that they are very viable and A-Bom is more of an entire deck concept. Not just an offense or defense.

On a related note. I would probably concur with Andrew on Genesis. It may not be the best but sure is dependable. (Are we allowed a second vote?)
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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2012, 03:07:17 PM »
+1
"Long-lasting" is a deceptive term, since virtually any offense is long-lasting so long as it has strong characters and Chariot. FBTNB is probably the best in terms of being able to counter a multitude of defenses, however, it's generally not fast enough to be particularly competitive (unless you're Martin ;)). I'm reasonably sure the Deck is faster than anything else out there right now, but it's garbage against any legitimate defense. Right now, the best might really be some hybrid of the two, maybe even Sam. Decks like TGT or Disciples are too dependent on one specific card for me to rate them as the best though.

Offline CJSports

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2012, 03:44:24 PM »
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I would still say the FASTEST deck right now is probably either Disciples or Sam, The Deck is fast but I don't think it is faster than either of those two.

Honestly Disciples is another solid offense still. The problem is no one plays with it. It's better than The Deck or Sam against any legit defense because has some nice versatility if you are not basing it on Thad. It also can shut down almost any auto-block with Thad. The problem is right now that it is so big that you have less defense than in The Deck or Sam.
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Offline wyatt_marcum

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2012, 03:48:10 PM »
-1
it probabally is faster than disciples. there is to much to depend on with disciples. You have to have fishing boat for the big drawing, and you have to have at least two characters to draw. you also have to have peter for Four Drachma coin. there is too much to depend on. The Deck and Sam both rely on much less. most of there characters search for other characters and draw. small amounts at a time, but big effects in the long run. the deck is only slightly slower than Sam because of the extra stuff added in.
これは現実の生活ですか。これはただのファンタジーですか。土地のスライドは、現実からの脱出でキャッチ。あなたの目を開きます。見て、空とを参照してください。私はちょうど貧しい少年、同情は要りませんので、私

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2012, 04:34:00 PM »
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Fbtnb Dan has the best early game right now. The deck is a toolbox, and dropping/searching for any reliable threat off the very first draw of the game is easily accomplished. Disciples can be tremendously fast, but only if Boat gets out relatively early. I don't like decks that function like that (X must be satisfied before Y), especially since Disciples have no tutor for it. Peter and 4D is also another good example already brought up...1 for 1's are terrible towards consistency. Matthew is the only consistent source of repeated drawing, but is terrible as an actual Hero winning a rescue, as I'd much rather be rescuing with John or Thad. This is why Oak is the absolute best drawing card in the game...draw 2 that tags in a big threat for an easy rescue. There simply is none better.
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Offline Red

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2012, 08:02:38 PM »
+1
FYI, Disciples is by no means a large offense compared to The Deck. And The Deck is most defniatly faster. People fail to account for all the searches.
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Offline CJSports

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2012, 08:51:57 PM »
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Well then I guess it depends on how you play dsiciples. The Thad Rad version was almost purely offense. I've tried The Deck and I still am not seeing this overpowering speed everyone is talking about. It's fast and yes fairly reliably fast but still by no means the fastest offense out there.
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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2012, 09:14:49 PM »
+4
Disciples aren't that fast. They need to be paired with a fast defense.
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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2012, 10:28:22 PM »
+2
Well then I guess it depends on how you play dsiciples. The Thad Rad version was almost purely offense. I've tried The Deck and I still am not seeing this overpowering speed everyone is talking about. It's fast and yes fairly reliably fast but still by no means the fastest offense out there.

It depends. Every version of the Deck has a large amount of searches, utilizes Pentecost and First Fruits, and has Angel Under the Oak. Some versions also use Sam and Jair, and at that point, I don't believe that any deck is faster on an average draw. It might not be the absolute fastest if everything goes perfectly, but I don't believe any deck is quicker to set up in multiple games, simply due to the fact that it so many different facets. If you put one piece together, the rest comes together pretty quickly. FBTNB Sam decks are the same way, but I don't believe they're quite as good in this particular aspect. If Disciples gets a perfect draw (Peter, FDC, Fishing Boat, Matthew, Pentecost, etc), then yes, very few things are going to be faster, but how often does that really happen?

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2012, 11:35:09 PM »
+1
FbtNB hands-down.
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Offline Josh

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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2012, 12:38:40 PM »
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FbtNB hands-down.

I don't think you can give the award to an offense that is so susceptible to artifacts.  HHI, Golden Calf, CWD, and Asherah Pole can lock down a negatable banding offense with ease.  Herod the Great, 12FG, and Goliath can too.  I know Foreign Sword helps, but if FS is on Ishmaiah, then you can't use it to get past HHI.
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Re: Most dependable longest lasting offence award
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2012, 09:19:04 PM »
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Having two silver bullets does not a weaker offense make. Especially not when those same cards shut down or hamper most offenses. Golden Calf, HoH and Asherah Pole are the only problems unique to FbtNB, and of those Golden Calf isn't played (and if it is, it's by a deck that's designed to give every offense a hard time), HoH isn't played and won't be because it only hampers one specific offense, and Asherah Pole requires both an N.T. offense and a lot of negatable EE's (making for a very weak deck).
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