Author Topic: Access and recursion possibilities for Genesis (non-flood, non-antediluvian)? (Read 2105 times)

Reth · « **on:** April 13, 2020, 05:16:58 PM »

Hi there,

any hints on this? What are reasonable possibilities for Genesis (non-flood, non-antediluvian) for Recursion and Access (inkl. Drawing) to all piles in order to be competitive?

Any tips / hints welcome!

Thank you in advance!

Bye

Ironisaac · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2020, 05:40:06 PM »

The abraham from CoW is by far one of my favorite speed cards for genesis, him plus Angel at Shur can get out your whole offense very fast.

Reth · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2020, 05:43:14 PM »

Thanks! Yes him I already considered in conjunction with Lot (FoM) he even let's you draw 2. But that's all still far from the possibilities white or other brigades/themes offer (Ruth, Musicians, ...).

The Schaefer · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2020, 08:57:08 PM »

Genesis can set up really easily as many of the TC enhancements and covenants really help get things going. Flood survivors is probably still the best/most consistent. LoC brought in many genesis cards so there's quite a lot to still explore.

Theres basically 4 themes for Genesis atm. Flood Survivor, Antediluvians, Sons of Jacob, Abraham related.

Antediluvians and Abraham related prior to LoC didnt really have enough support by themselves to run alone.

Sons of Jacob is relatively powerful but suffers from draw power issues. But it's possible that with the right card advantage engines elsewhere it may be competitive.

With all that in mind a hybridized Genesis themed deck may be possible but Flood survivors just seems to be more consistent and solid than trying to add other Genesis stuff. (An incredibly small 1 to 2 hero splash that is blue or green may be ok but I am no flood survivors expert.)

There is 1 other Genesis deck that MAY have the potential to be competitive. Creation of the world. Its incredibly explosive but it is very much a glass cannon. Mitigating the Glass cannon nature is the key to it but by and large it hasnt been explored much in recent years as it is very risky compared to other decks. Also it requires memorizing a lot of lines so you know how to properly mass band and how you can get to your combo as well as backup plans.

There may still be a build that no one has found yet too. I'm just speaking broadly from what I personally concluded while building a Turn 1 creation deck last year for T2.

Cnakeeyes · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2020, 10:03:20 PM »

I disagree that flood survives and creation of the world are the only competitive gen decks. I have had great success running sons of Jacob for 10 years more so after CoW. 3 tc en that pull hero's, 1 tc en that looks at top 6 and takes 1 plus reorder rest plus artifact that looks at 3 takes 1. recurtion plus interrupt with Abe's kids. Ben makes 5 diffrent CBN battle winners (I only play 2) protected by Joe + Bethlehem. Joe also protects storehouse so you have reserve access. It really got hurt by the ignore change but zeb late game is still a solid CBN protected from discard (Joe) ignore of a lot depending on hand size.

The Schaefer · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2020, 10:38:41 PM »

Quote from: Cnakeeyes on April 13, 2020, 10:03:20 PM

I disagree that flood survives and creation of the world are the only competitive gen decks. I have had great success running sons of Jacob for 10 years more so after CoW. 3 tc en that pull hero's, 1 tc en that looks at top 6 and takes 1 plus reorder rest plus artifact that looks at 3 takes 1. recurtion plus interrupt with Abe's kids. Ben makes 5 diffrent CBN battle winners (I only play 2) protected by Joe + Bethlehem. Joe also protects storehouse so you have reserve access. It really got hurt by the ignore change but zeb late game is still a solid CBN protected from discard (Joe) ignore of a lot depending on hand size.

Sons of jacob are good. In my earlier comment I stated that the Sons of Jacob are relatively poweful but suffer from draw power issues. That's all. What they do is powerful and can be hard to stop but theres no real advantage engine for the deck.

That's the only reason I dont hold them a bit higher competitively. I could see someone having reasonable success with them though provided one maximized card advantage elsewise in the deck. Maybe an endless treasures package or something?

Edit: modified original response to better reflect my opinion on Sons of Jacob's viability.

Reth · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:56:01 AM »

Thanks guys! I also aimed at a Sons of Jacob setup with some support. But do you consider Joseph's Silver Cup from PoC as still viable?
While I am embarrassed to admit that I could not find (yet) any more - but which of Abe's kids besides Isaac do we have already within Redemption (Ismael I could not find as a card, also not Simran, Jokschan, Medan, Midian, Jischbak and Schuach)? And which are the cards that do "recurtion plus interrupt with Abe's kids"?

But all in all I fear that such kind of deck might not be competitive enough anymore. Also which kind of defense would you recommend? Animals? Babylonians? ...? ...

The Schaefer · « **Reply #7 on:** April 14, 2020, 04:31:44 AM »

Abe's kid refers to Abraham's descendant. Though not the one from LoC in this case.

The silver cup offers some card advantage if I remeber correctly so it should be viable. It just competes with other artifacts for that spot. Getting a deck to set up fast seems to be the key in today's meta. There are many support cards for Genesis to help set up quickly but I'm not expert on what an optimal Sons of Jacob start is so I'm hesitant to really speak too much on the matter.

Reth · « **Reply #8 on:** April 14, 2020, 04:43:16 AM »

Thanks again.

Any proposals regarding defense? Animals still seems too weak, especially when it comes to offensive banding chains!

Cnakeeyes · « **Reply #9 on:** April 14, 2020, 08:34:44 AM »

I've always had fun with Egyptians to go with the sons. I'll post the deck that I've been playing when I get home from work. I do tend to agree with speed being key however in some forms of the deck i play I've been able to deck out by turn 5 and then it's zeb walk bys (till rule change) ignoring 1-3 toughness and up. Now you have to wait till opponent has next to nothing left for zeb to be effective.

thecoolguy · « **Reply #10 on:** April 14, 2020, 11:13:10 AM »

I have a very strong animal/ bab/ edomites defense i can send that to you when i get home. Blue and crimson is very strong. You just gotta know how to play it. Like most decks it take time and practice to be able to get used to the combos and other strats that are in the deck. That's why you play it over and over again. I also had a blue patriarchs offence with it if you are interested!

thecoolguy · « **Reply #11 on:** April 14, 2020, 12:07:05 PM »

Reserve
Cov of Pillistia
Scapegoat
Behemoth
Fire Foxes

Lions
Colosium Lions
Serpent
Negev Lions
Nebby
King Belt
Bab siege army
Esau, The hunter

Dreams
belt banquet
betryal
Destoying Bands
Scattered
Nebs Pride

I have been running this crimson defense with a meek offense. and it has been serving the purpose. it also has been super speedy. But What i have found is that with a suicide defense you'll need a speedy offense too! so i made a genesis offence based around the sons of Jacob and Abrams army as the new Abraham as the main attacker. You'll get used to the deck after a while and know what to go for but that takes time. There is also a lot of stall in animals and just weighing your opponent down in order for you to be able to get the cards you need. Like scapegoat and serpent. I put a lot of my auto block characters into the reserve and a lot of the speed characters into the deck. Covenant of Philistia is a main speed card in the animals offence. It also allows you to but a few humans into the deck such as Esau and Nebby ( TxP obviously

) and so when you have a card like destroying bands you can use the humans to destroy your opponent for at least one block. King belt can get back your Book of the covenant, and a belts banquet. As you play the deck you'll find more and more combos to be able to sneakyly kill your opponent. If you change anything about it let me know too! I will run a different offense than you most likely but I would love to see a change and some cool combos too!

Reth · « **Reply #12 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:02:52 PM »

Thank you very much. Regarding defense I had a similar one without the babs for my blue crimson deck.
Since I do not yet own LoC cards I can only build version without the new set which is perfectly fine since I do the same for my other decks.

What would you recommend for a version without LoC (while LoC provides some very powerful cards for these kind of decks)?

So far the blue crimson one could not yet stand against my white brown deck at all...

thecoolguy · « **Reply #13 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:16:08 PM »

Well for destroying bands i would put in a lurking. but other than that i would put in a honey from a lion and maybe a serpents curse or carcasses ( PoC ) and maybe a lacking prophecy and then add a endless treasures to that too. and maybe add an exiles and put it into the reserve for the cov of philistia and add the curses into the deck because most of those are going to be played in battle. The problem with that tho is that you need to limit the amount of artifacts you put into the deck because in order for honey from the lion to word you need to have an artifact slot. Unless you use it in the way that i do and only occasionally activate it when you need a certain card. So i would suggest if your going to use honey from the lion is to run a prosperity LS and discard a useless animal first. Another thing i think that would be useful is to add a restrict card to the deck ( such as RBD or Jonah )
a cool thing i thought of is using lurking to band in a bab soldiers after you have used a capture card. like the new one in PoC to hopefully for a D3. I hope that clears a few things up! If you have any other questions i will be happy to answer them or give some more advice>

thecoolguy · « **Reply #14 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:23:08 PM »

One cool thing i found is that you can use the old As nermurous ads the stars to exchange for the Midinaites Slave and bring in a son of Jacob. And band in Simion and Levi for a little territory and Hand destruction. You could also exchange it for the new Jacob and band in some of his sons with him I think.. I also think you get to take a genesis ehn too. In Big bands Abraham servent to Hur is a good card. But my main focus was Abrams army to CBI kill the other character.

Reth · « **Reply #15 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:31:50 PM »

Yes, numerous as the stars I have also in as well as some of the crimson curses.

@thecoolguy: Do you by chance play on Lackey? Then we could compare and test the decks...

thecoolguy · « **Reply #16 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:51:11 PM »

I do not but I can FaceTime or Skype or other things and you could share your Lackey screen to me whilst we build decks. If you would like!

thecoolguy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:53:42 PM »

Just tell me what you prefer and i can try to set it up for us!

Reth · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2020, 02:57:50 PM »

Quote from: thecoolguy on April 14, 2020, 02:53:42 PM

Just tell me what you prefer and i can try to set it up for us!

Thank you! Preferred would be Lackey

. But maybe we can also do a session via Skype or Zoom or so (after the experience last Saturday I am now convinced that this is working). Do you use Lackey for deck building at least (so that I could send/post a deck list)?

thecoolguy · « **Reply #19 on:** April 14, 2020, 03:03:57 PM »

I don't have a lackey.. But you could send the list of cards by copy paste. I would love to talk it over and work out some decks. I have a really solid deck rn (Meek and splash crimson) that i could put your deck up against so far it has only lost once. It would be a great test for both decks and i could share about my knowledge of crimson and blue.

Reth · « **Reply #20 on:** April 14, 2020, 04:37:44 PM »

PM Sent with the following:

Here is my version of Blue Genesis + Crimson, but it cannot stand IMO against a white/brown deck I played quite a while.
Reserve is still too huge since deck is still in test mode. Several of the cards I do not own though (no LoC Cards, no Remnant LS, etc.).

Spoiler (hover to show)

Still wonder whether I could work out a version which would be even better than my current white/brown deck and which would also be able to compete against flood, CtB, Throne and whatsoever.

Will be interesting what you might find out about it.

Cnakeeyes · « **Reply #21 on:** April 14, 2020, 08:03:48 PM »

I posted that Gen/Egyptian deck I was talking about earlier today.

https://www.cactusforums.com/complete-decks/genegyptian-deck-10-years-played/

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Author Topic: Access and recursion possibilities for Genesis (non-flood, non-antediluvian)? (Read 2105 times)