Author Topic: Character Thieving (Read 10802 times)

Sean · « **on:** February 21, 2009, 04:34:59 PM »

I found a mean little combo that will effectively, and permanently give you control of your opponent's Evil Character.

1: Use He is Risen or Two Possessed by Demons to set aside the Evil Character that you want to take.
2: Block with Seven Wicked Spirits.
3: Begin maniacal laugh.

I would like to thank the recent question about set asides for having those cards at the forefront of my mind as I was looking through the list of orange Evil Characters. It works best with TPbD when SoG has already been played because then SWS never comes back to switch again.

jtay · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:48:49 PM »

I don't get it. Can you explain to me how you permanently get control? If you band with one of your opponent's evil characters, then at the end of the battle (if it's still alive) it gets to return to its owner's territory. What makes exchanging any different?

Sean · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:58:47 PM »

Banding? There's no banding. Seven Wicked Spirits exchanges itself with another Evil Character. Exchange, is just that, an exchange. You gain control of your opponent's Evil Character and they get SWS.

Quote from: REG

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: 7 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may interrupt all Fortresses and exchange this Evil Character with any other Evil Character in play or set-aside area. • Identifiers: Generic NT Male Demon • Verse: Luke 11:26 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:00:46 PM »

This combo is so awesome, that SWS could have only come from one set...

Set

... also known as Set Awesome.

Sean · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:02:25 PM »

Quote

Set Cool ... also known as Set Awesome.

Hehe, I didn't bother to turn off smilies. Its set 8.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:03:07 PM »

Quote from: Sean on February 21, 2009, 05:02:25 PM

Quote
Set Cool ... also known as Set Awesome.
Hehe, I didn't bother to turn off smilies. Its set 8.

Shhh, your detracting from the awesome by admitting this.

jtay · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:06:22 PM »

Quote from: Sean on February 21, 2009, 04:58:47 PM

Banding? There's no banding. Seven Wicked Spirits exchanges itself with another Evil Character. Exchange, is just that, an exchange. You gain control of your opponent's Evil Character and they get SWS.

Quote from: REG
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: 7 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may interrupt all Fortresses and exchange this Evil Character with any other Evil Character in play or set-aside area. • Identifiers: Generic NT Male Demon • Verse: Luke 11:26 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set

I realize there's no banding in this combo, I was using that as a comparison. When you say "permanently get control of your opponent's evil character" do you mean that after battle that character will return to your territory and remain your evil character? If so, what is preventing it from returning to its owner's territory?

Gohanick · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:07:36 PM »

what i want to know is if you can use TpBD in prep phase to set aside 2 opponent's characters

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:08:03 PM »

Quote from: jtay on February 21, 2009, 05:06:22 PM

When you say "permanently get control of your opponent's evil character" do you mean that after battle that character will return to your territory and remain your evil character?

Yes

Quote

If so, what is preventing it from returning to its owner's territory?

The fact that you Exchanged them... you switched their positions entirely. Replaced one with the other... etc...

Sean · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:11:12 PM »

Think of it like the exchange Lost Soul. It doesn't return to the owner's territory after being exchanged, it stays under the control of the player that the owner chose to exchange with.

jtay · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:11:44 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on February 21, 2009, 05:08:03 PM

Quote from: jtay on February 21, 2009, 05:06:22 PM
When you say "permanently get control of your opponent's evil character" do you mean that after battle that character will return to your territory and remain your evil character?
Yes

Quote
If so, what is preventing it from returning to its owner's territory?

The fact that you Exchanged them... you switched their positions entirely. Replaced one with the other... etc...

How does this not compare with what happens to your opponent's evil character after you band to it in battle? In that circumstance, the evil characters would return to their respective owners' territories after battle. Am I missing something here? Is there some ruling on "exchange" abilities that I'm unaware of?

jtay · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:14:41 PM »

Quote from: Sean on February 21, 2009, 05:11:12 PM

Think of it like the exchange Lost Soul. It doesn't return to the owner's territory after being exchanged, it stays under the control of the player that the owner chose to exchange with.

True, but lost souls don't have any way of moving around with the exception of abilities like that. Characters, on the other hand, move in and out of battle, and they always return to their owners' territories after battle.

Sean · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:23:08 PM »

It is no different that exchanging with the Lost Souls. I exchange my Wanderer and gain control of my opponent's Lost Soul. I exchange with Seven Wicked Spirits and gain control of my opponent's Evil Character. That's the point of exchange. You take an opponent's card and use it as if it were yours to begin with.

jtay · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:30:18 PM »

Here's a quote from the 10th Anniversary Rulebook under Battle Resolution:

EVIL CHARACTER WINS - Your opponent’s Evil Character wins if one of these conditions is met:

a) The Evil Character’s strength is greater than or equal to the Hero’s toughness, and the Hero’s strength is less than the Evil Character’s toughness. The Hero is discarded, and the Evil Character withdraws to your opponent’s territory.

b) Your opponent’s Evil Character repels the Hero. Each Hero and Evil Character withdraws to his owner’s territory.

c) All Heroes were removed from battle. Each surviving Evil Character is returned to his owner’s territory.

For further clarification, here's the definition of "owner" from the online REG:

When the special ability of a card refers to the owner, it means the player from whose deck the card was drawn.

Sean · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2009, 06:46:02 PM »

Quote from: REG

Instant Abilities > Search, Reveal, or Exchange
Default Conditions

• A deck is always reshuffled after it has been searched unless a card states otherwise (see Beginning a Game in the rulebook [p. 5]).

• There is a one-minute time limit for each 100 cards initially in the deck being searched.

• If the search is for a specific kind of card, you must reveal it to your opponent(s) before you play it or add it to your hand. If the search is for any card (ie: Search or False Peace) you are not required to reveal the card to your opponent(s).

• Searching for a card with a specific brigade color (e.g., a blue brigade enhancement) includes searching for a multicolor card of the same type (good or evil). Multicolor cards implicitly represent all brigade colors at once; multicolor is not considered a separate color.

• Exchanges from a draw pile or discard pile normally involve a search. Reshuffle as necessary. Card(s) exchanged from any other location must be placed in the same corresponding location.

• Do not replace Lost Soul cards searched for or revealed in the draw pile.

• If you reveal a card from your hand and then discard it, you are discarding it from your hand. If you reveal a card from a draw pile and then discard it, you are discarding it from your draw pile.

• The only way to target an exchanged card out of play is if you negate the card with the exchange ability.

• No exchange card can be exchanged with another exchange card.

• The duration of an exchange of cards is permanent unless stated otherwise.

Bolded text.

jtay · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:02:48 PM »

I can definitely see where you're coming from, and I hope one of playtesters or other highly experienced players drops in to help clear this up.

The last thing I have to offer to this discussion is a bit of logic:

An exchange card takes two cards and moves them to each other's locations (i.e between 2 lands of bondage or between one's deck and one's hand).

Since Seven Wicked Spirits' ability can only activate in battle, it is assumed that it is exchanging cards between the battlefield and a set-aside area (or a territory).

Like you pointed out, the duration of exchange cards is permanent (unless stated otherwise).

However, it is impossible in this game for a character to permanently remain in battle (which is where your chosen evil character was exchanged to).

Therefore, the permanence of the exchange must expire when the battle ends to prevent this impossibility.

At this point, regular battle resolution practices take place, and characters are returned to their owners' territories.

Sean · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:57:47 PM »

Take a few minutes and look at the special abilities of each of the cards in the REG to see if you can get an understanding of the combo with my explanation in the first post. If you're still confused, post back.

Sean · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:46:07 PM »

Yep, that's the idea.

The Schaef · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2009, 08:38:03 AM »

Quote from: jtay on February 21, 2009, 08:02:48 PM

However, it is impossible in this game for a character to permanently remain in battle (which is where your chosen evil character was exchanged to).

That does not matter. The location is not what is "permanently" exchanged. Control of the character is what "sticks". Otherwise this dilemma would crop up any time you moved any card out of its original location (battle, set-aside... Land of Redemption?)

Gohanick · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:17:58 PM »

you can't play tpbd in prep phase correct?

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:19:37 PM »

TPBD?

TimMierz · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:21:27 PM »

Two Possessed by Demons.

The Schaef · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:22:50 PM »

You can if you target your own Evil Characters.

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Author Topic: Character Thieving (Read 10802 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

The Schaef