Author Topic: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer  (Read 1155 times)

Offline CtheTree

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A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« on: January 30, 2022, 03:39:08 AM »
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I am here to divulge a combo I found to the community. I was planning to keep this combo secret and use it at Nationals this year but I cannot go to Nationals due to a work conflict. I used it effectively in my fourth round Lackey Grand Prix game against Jay Chambers (Red) this week. Gabe's BoM decklist he posted today on Discord prompted me to decide to spill the beans because whether he realized it or not his deck contains one of the versions of the combo.

Here is an article I published on Land of Redemption containing all the details: http://landofredemption.com/?p=11278

I have published the article on LoR but please discuss any thoughts you have on the article here as this is a conducive environment for that. The one request I have is if you find any variations of this combo or ways to make it better/pair it with choose the blocker please share them here for all to enjoy.
Christian, Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Romans 11:33-36. Editor for Land of Redemption.

Offline CtheTree

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Re: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2022, 04:10:43 AM »
+1
Also I am going to reveal a project I will be publishing on the forums soon. I also am familiar with Magic the Gathering Commander format and there is a "Commander Spellbook" where players submit combos for the edification of the community. I have found MTG players are far more willing to share the combos they find than Redemption players are. We try to keep our combos secret in Redemption to gain a competitive edge. I get that but being around top competitive commander players in MTG who share the combos they find and still win is making me rethink keeping combos I find secret. They share all that they find but they are just better players and deck builders than everyone else and so they still win. They want other people to enjoy the cool combos they find and are confident they still know how to incorporate them into a deck better and still win. I think this attitude is really cool and good for the community. I am not a champion player but I do have a knack for finding combos compared to the average player I have realized. I am going to put together a "Combo Database" on the forums of all the combos I know of for Redemption of various types. As I find new combos I will add them to it. I am done keeping my combos secret even if I am going to Nats again at some point. If I am a good enough player/deck builder I will not need that extra edge from keeping something secret to win. I found that with the LAFS combo at Nats this year. I did not win Nats but everyone knew about the combo and I still had a solid result placing in the Top 5.  Once the "Combo Database" is published if you agree with me that this is a good thing for the community I ask that you too share the combos you know of that are not in the database and any new combos you find in the future so they can be added to it.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 04:13:24 AM by CtheTree »
Christian, Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Romans 11:33-36. Editor for Land of Redemption.

Offline Reth

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Re: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2022, 10:32:09 AM »
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I really like and support that idea!  :D :thumbup: - Also really would like to learn to get a better sense to identify/find combos.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2022, 11:21:23 AM »
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That's a neat little combo. Thanks for sharing! Minor correction on the CtB portion, if you add Zadok with TS&S, TS&S would have to be used before Zadok's band due to ability activation order. What I can never remember though is if order printed on the card supercedes that, since then you could band to Mighty Men with TS&S and then Jeremiah from there. Still seems like the bounce is supposed to go before the Mighty Men band then too, but I don't know for sure.

I can't think of an easy way to do it with CtB otherwise that doesn't involve using New Covenant on Jeremiah to let him band, but the Hero would probably come from hand for unity purposes, which means no weapon. Not quite as cool and harder to pull off. Wool Fleece is still decent but they can still band to an EC in hand. Great White Throne might be the most reliable way to get an EC alone.

One of the other parts of the old school combo didn't even use Ahimelek. If they had a royal EC in territory, you could attack with Jehu, exchange to Asahel or Ehud (or Elijah once he was printed), choose the royal EC, and then discard it with Jehu. This is of course a lot easier to stop because they can still negate Jehu, but a lot simpler.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 08:03:06 AM by TheJaylor »

Offline CtheTree

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Re: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2022, 07:11:04 PM »
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Good feedback Jayden. I have edited the article accordingly. I found some other routes to pair a CTB effect with this combo. Page 15 in the R.E.G. discusses what Jayden is referencing.

Please check out the updated article to see what I discovered. It requires more cards than the original (illegal) route but does actually work: http://landofredemption.com/?p=11278

The Mighty Men deal does not work since the bounce on TS&S does happen prior to the band.

« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 07:15:24 PM by CtheTree »
Christian, Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Romans 11:33-36. Editor for Land of Redemption.

Offline CtheTree

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Re: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2022, 06:29:12 PM »
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So now that Ken at TLG has card images for the GoC phase 1 cards on his site I noticed an arguably superior version of this whole combo idea that does not use Faith of David. It is better than Faith of David because there is hypothetically infinite recursion of this combo whereas Faith of David is limited to two usages in most builds (one with itself and then a recursion with Faith (PoC).

Here is the new GoC version of this combo:

Good Seed (GoC)+Jeremiah+Zaccheus (GoC)

So you play Good Seed in your territory, enter battle with Jeremiah, then when an EC blocks you reserve Good Seed to add Zaccheus to battle to reserve their evil card in battle which is functionally CBN due to Jeremiah's toss. The beautiful thing about this version is unlike with Faith of David which discards itself, Good Seed reserves itself so if you have something like House of Prayer you can keep getting it back. The other beauty of this is GoC offers some really nice options like Watchful Servant which can be added to the battle through Good Seed, draw cards, and then band to Zaccheus to do the nasty combo. I just have the minimal version above but if you can enter with Jeremiah, reserve Good Seed to add Watchful Servant to battle to draw up to 3 cards (which is likely to happen), and then band to Zaccheus to reserve their EC essentially CBN due to Jeremiah... Well that is pretty good. And you can do it over, and over, and over again... Might as well have Great White Throne up to ensure just one EC in battle at a time...

Also I should note with GoC if you do Jairus to Jairus Daughter and topdeck Jairus Daughter then you can do the same thing with them that you are doing with Jeremiah. The perk? Jairus' Daughter can't be negated by Woes or eliminated by something like Martyr or Falling Away (CoW) because she topdecks herself.

Thank you GoC!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 06:47:59 PM by CtheTree »
Christian, Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Romans 11:33-36. Editor for Land of Redemption.

Offline CtheTree

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Re: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2022, 02:49:49 PM »
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Combo alert: Jeremiah+Good Seed or Sent Two by Two/Matthias works for the combo deal as well now that GoC phase 1 is out.
Christian, Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Romans 11:33-36. Editor for Land of Redemption.

Offline CtheTree

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Re: A Rotation Cheese Rescue Combo- Primer
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2022, 03:49:58 PM »
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So I just realized today that absolutely everything I described above with Jeremiah also works with The Mighty Warrior. He only checks upon entering battle so if you add to battle after he is already in battle he will still toss since his clause is "if" not "while".

He is arguably superior to Jeremiah in some builds since he is CBI and cannot be interrupted by Woes making the combo tighter. He also cannot be interrupted by guys like Abaddon or Phicol.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 04:18:38 PM by CtheTree »
Christian, Husband, Father, Youth Pastor, Romans 11:33-36. Editor for Land of Redemption.