Author Topic: Wasting Disease (Read 8143 times)

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #50 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:02:43 PM »

You're pushing it again....

"Restrain" means to restrain them from entering the Field of Battle (which is what the other non-decreasing diseases do).

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #51 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:04:17 PM »

Lol. For once in this debate, someone is providing me with a clear to understand and logical answer.

So, If what you are saying is true, then I guess I can agree that WD doesnt "disease" characters. PwD however should, unlike what Maly is saying.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #52 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:07:24 PM »

I absolutely agree that PwD should be a disease with a disease ability. I was only talking about WD.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #53 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:09:43 PM »

I know, and I totally understand the way you explained it.

Smokey · « **Reply #54 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:22:58 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 04:09:43 PM

I know, and I totally understand the way you explained it.

YMT should be promoted within the redemption community

.

frisian9 · « **Reply #55 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:28:51 PM »

I think you guys are being a little harsh. Let me try to restate what Tim has stated. What Tim is trying to explain is true - (1) special abilities have targets (e.g., cards), (2) poison** is a special ability, and (3) the poison special ability is always linked to another special ability. Linking special abilities is nothing new - the special ability "set aside" is always tied to another special ability.

Poison is a special ability that does nothing more than classify a card into the catetory "poison". Think of poison as a special ability that writes an additional classification into the identifier area of the card (like we currently name categories like king, prophet, fought in earthly battle, etc...) Old cards don't have identifier areas, so explaining poison as "stamping a card" is valid. Notice that new card sets do (notice that the new orange Poison of Dragons card has the word "poison" in the identifier area already, noting explicitly what the poison special ability does). This is redundant for new cards, but that only helps new players understand more easily. When we created the category list called poison in the back of the REG, we listed cards that could be categorized as having a poison special ability. It could be debated that the list isn't perfect - perhaps Wasting Disease does not belong in this classification (even though it has the word "disease" in the title).

However, a poison special ability really doesn't "do" anything to the character - it simply places it into a category. It "marks" a card. The ability we (mistakenly) associated with a poison card is really not the poison special ability itself. The poison special ability that was originally always linked to it was increase/decrease ability (e.g., Boils, Poison, Bad Figs). This is no longer the case. We now link the poison SA with other special abilities (e.g., Lacking Sleep links the disease SA to play next enhancement, Judah's Sin links disease to ignore). What muddied the situation was adding cards to the REG category list that had "poison" or "disease" in the card name but didn't really follow the traditional poison special ability linked to a traditional linked special ability.

Wasting Disease is a difficult card to get a handle on. Perhaps we should not classify it as a poison, since it doesn't fit easily and it seems to cause more confusion than provide clarity. If we want to understand it and other cards yet to be printed, can we help each other understand how it can be classified and used as a poison or disease (or not)? Be more helpful.

Mike

** I will use the word "poison" but could just as easily make the same argument with the word "disease".

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #56 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:37:21 PM »

So would you say that any card that is the target of a "poison" card has been poisoned, with the same being true for diseases?

I agree WD could or could not "disease" heroes, but would you say that Plagued with Diseases still "diseases" the opponents heroes while they are being decreased?

frisian9 · « **Reply #57 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:48:43 PM »

I would agree that Plagued with Diseases (Decrease all opponents’ Heroes by 0/2 (or 0/3 if you have the fewest Redeemed Souls).) can be viewed as "stamping" or categorizing all opponent's Heroes as a disease, and linking the disease to the increase/decrease ability SA.

I would also say that a card categorized as a "disease" allows another SA that targets cards with the "disease" classification separately from those that target cards with a "poison" classification. This would be like targeting "all kings" vs. "all prophets". They are representing two separate categories of cards, based on how they are classified.

Does that make sense?

Mike

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #58 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:57:50 PM »

Quote from: frisian9 on August 16, 2009, 04:48:43 PM

I would also say that a card categorized as a "disease" allows another SA that targets cards with the "disease" classification separately from those that target cards with a "poison" classification. This would be like targeting "all kings" vs. "all prophets". They are representing two separate categories of cards, based on how they are classified.

Are you basicly saying that a disease is not a poison and visa versa...? Sorry, but that long sentence hurt my brain. XD

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #59 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:02:43 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 04:57:50 PM

Are you basicly saying that a disease is not a poison and visa versa...?

No, he is saying that all poisons come from Australia (as everbody knows).

Smokey · « **Reply #60 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:04:25 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on August 16, 2009, 05:02:43 PM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 04:57:50 PM
Are you basicly saying that a disease is not a poison and visa versa...?

No, he is saying that all poisons come from Australia (as everbody knows).

Just like Kangaroos and Dingos...

Are you implying Kangaroos are master poisoners

.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #61 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:05:49 PM »

Quote from: Smokey on August 16, 2009, 05:04:25 PM

Just like Kangaroos and Dingos...

Are you implying Kangaroos are master poisoners .

You're trying to trick me into giving something away. It won't work.

frisian9 · « **Reply #62 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:06:17 PM »

Sorry. That was a long sentence. Yes, I am saying they are separate from each other, just as kings and prophets are separate from each other. What I am not saying (since I haven't gone to see what the rulebook or REG says) is whether cards in different categories (poison or disease) are targeted at the same time.

As an aside, I keep track of the following separate categories: (1) poison, (2) disease, (3) sin, (4) plague, and (5) disaster. I believe they are targeted separately (but I don't say that with 100% surety).

Mike

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #63 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:08:23 PM »

Quote from: frisian9 on August 16, 2009, 05:06:17 PM

.... (5) disaster. I believe they are targeted separately (but I don't say that with 100% surety).

Spoiler Alert!!

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #64 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:11:35 PM »

I noticed that right away as well.

*EDIT* we may already have some.

Deluge of Rain
Romans Destroy Jerusalem
Thrown into the Sea
the Trumpets
and more...

frisian9 · « **Reply #65 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:14:14 PM »

Hailstones is a disaster. I didn't spill any beans (yet).

Mike

SirNobody · « **Reply #66 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:18:25 PM »

Hey,

Rules get complicated so that they can be precise. They need to be precise because if they aren't precise they end up contradicting one another. The next REG is further along in the "being precise" aspect than it in the "being understandable" aspect. The understandability will improve with time.

When a character is targeted by a disease ability two things happen. (1) The character gains a temporary identifier "diseased." The identifier remains on the character until the character is healed or resets to face value. [this is what makes a diseased character healable and what is needed to make Face of Death affect the character] and (2) The character is affected by an ability that acts as "the effect of the disease." The classic example of "the effect of the disease" is a 0/2 decrease each turn. "The effect of the disease" can be a variety of different abilities but they all have two things in common, they always do something bad to the character and they always last as long as the "diseased" identifier lasts.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #67 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:23:12 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on August 16, 2009, 05:18:25 PM

The identifier remains on the character until the character is healed or resets to face value. [this is what makes a diseased character healable and what is needed to make Face of Death affect the character]

So, when PwD is active, you can indeed use a healing card to reset a hero to face value. Also, the effect remains while PwD is up, so do you feel that they can't gain the disease label during the time PwD is active?

SirNobody · « **Reply #68 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:35:23 PM »

Hey,

Does the decrease from Plagued with Disease last until the affected characters are healed or until Plagued with Disease is deactivated?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #69 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:41:05 PM »

Both?

PwD stops if you kill it with a healing card, OR stops if you deactivate it.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #70 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:43:09 PM »

Quote from: frisian9 on August 16, 2009, 05:14:14 PM

Hailstones is a disaster. I didn't spill any beans (yet).

Yes, but there are currently no SAs that target "disasters."

The Weather Channel - Good Fortress

All evil disasters are negated. All good disasters cannot be negated. If Noah, Noah's Sons, or Jim Cantore are about to be discarded or removed from the game, place them here instead. Return them to territory after 40 days.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #71 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:44:00 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on August 16, 2009, 05:43:09 PM

Quote from: frisian9 on August 16, 2009, 05:14:14 PM
Hailstones is a disaster. I didn't spill any beans (yet).

Yes, but there are currently no SAs that target "disasters."

The Weather Channel - Good Fortress

All evil disasters are negated. All good disasters cannot be negated. If Noah, Noah's Sons, or Jim Cantore are about to be discarded or removed from the game, place them here instead. Return them to territory after 40 days.

frisian9 · « **Reply #72 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:46:05 PM »

I don't believe a healing card targets PwD - it targets the characters targeted by PwD. A heal card would instantaneously take the 0/2 (or 0/3) away from the effected characters and PwD would instantaneously put the 0/2 (or 0/3) back.

Mike

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #73 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:50:33 PM »

Quote from: frisian9 on August 16, 2009, 05:46:05 PM

I don't believe a healing card targets PwD - it targets the characters targeted by PwD. A heal card would instantaneously take the 0/2 (or 0/3) away from the effected characters and PwD would instantaneously put the 0/2 (or 0/3) back.

Mike

SirNobody · « **Reply #74 on:** August 16, 2009, 06:30:03 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on August 16, 2009, 05:41:05 PM

PwD stops ... if you deactivate it.

Quote from: SirNobody on August 16, 2009, 05:18:25 PM

"The effect of the disease" can be a variety of different abilities but they all have two things in common, they always do something bad to the character and they always last as long as the "diseased" identifier lasts.

If Plagued with Disease stops when you deactivate it (and I agree that it does) then it can't be a disease ability because disease abilities always last as long as the "diseased" identifier lasts.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

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Author Topic: Wasting Disease (Read 8143 times)

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