Author Topic: Unique rule (Read 5223 times)

Colin Michael · « **on:** July 30, 2009, 02:42:48 PM »

How exactly does the unique rule work?

If Creation of the World forces all Genesis heroes out of your deck, since it is not a may, it should force out doubles. In this case, it seems logical to me that the choice of which double to discard falls upon the owner.

Is this correct?

happyjosiah · « **Reply #1 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:53:45 PM »

A player may only have one copy of a card on the table that represents the same person.
I can have a Red David, Green David, and King David in my deck, but only one on my side of the table at a time. I believe this includes set asides and land of bondage as well.

If two end up under my control at once, I have to choose one to discard.

Answer the question?

Colin Michael · « **Reply #2 on:** July 30, 2009, 02:54:35 PM »

Answers the second question, however, does Creation of the World force doubles into play? If so, I've built a deck that breaks Type II.

happyjosiah · « **Reply #3 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:10:20 PM »

I believe it would, so I guess you have. Congrats!

Korunks · « **Reply #4 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:13:19 PM »

Well wouldn't that fall under clause two so to speak,

Quote

If two end up under my control at once, I have to choose one to discard.

So if it forced duplicates into control, you choose and discard the "extras".

Colin Michael · « **Reply #5 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:20:59 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on July 30, 2009, 03:13:19 PM

Well wouldn't that fall under clause two so to speak,

Quote
If two end up under my control at once, I have to choose one to discard.

So if it forced duplicates into control, you choose and discard the "extras".

Well, the follow up question is "does Creation of the World force all duplicates into play?" I think it does.

Korunks · « **Reply #6 on:** July 30, 2009, 03:26:10 PM »

I think it does also, so I believe you would have to discard multiple copies of cards. To bad you couldn't do it to your opponents Type 2 genesis deck, that could be quite cruel.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #7 on:** July 30, 2009, 04:02:08 PM »

... wow. Just wow. I think I may know what you're thinking of, and if I'm right might I just say ow.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:21:18 PM »

Quote from: Arch Angel on July 30, 2009, 04:02:08 PM

... wow. Just wow. I think I may know what you're thinking of, and if I'm right might I just say ow.

I came up with the idea for the deck before last nationals. I've tested it. It works. Infinite win condition.

The Schaef · « **Reply #9 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:23:40 PM »

What's the rest of it?

Gohanick · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:26:49 PM »

I made a deck like this about a year back

the whole idea was to play creation as soon as i could (put the duplicates in discard) to thin out my type 2 deck and draw the doms faster

then just use a chariots and creation again

I was about to win the state 1st place for type 2 when I creationed and got wrath of satan'd with no heroes left : -P

Colin Michael · « **Reply #11 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:29:38 PM »

(1) Provision Beniah
(2) Micah + Hidden Treasures + Creation of the World + all Genesis heroes from D-deck
(3) Discard all doubles (you have a double of every unique Genesis hero).
(4) Abraham's Servant to Ur on Jacob.
(Next turn)
(1) Activate Chariot of Fire
(2) RA Beniah, shuffle all Genesis heroes back.
(Next Turn)
Repeat combo getting back all enhancements with Micah and Asher (order of abilities prevents Micah and Asher from being negated by Jacob).

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:39:15 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on July 30, 2009, 05:29:38 PM

Repeat combo getting back all enhancements with Micah and Asher (order of abilities prevents Micah and Asher from being negated by Jacob).

I'm confused.

The Schaef · « **Reply #13 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:47:27 PM »

As am I.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #14 on:** July 30, 2009, 05:48:50 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on July 30, 2009, 05:29:38 PM

(1) Provision Beniah
(2) Micah + Hidden Treasures + Creation of the World + all Genesis heroes from D-deck
(3) Discard all doubles (you have a double of every unique Genesis hero).
(4) Abraham's Servant to Ur on Jacob.
(Next turn)
(1) Activate Chariot of Fire
(2) RA Beniah, shuffle all Genesis heroes back.
(Next Turn)
Repeat combo getting back all enhancements with Micah and Asher (order of abilities prevents Micah and Asher from being negated by Jacob).

Oh, that's not what I was thinking at all.

Also, I'm confused as well.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:19:18 PM »

I'll let you guys muse over it.

The Schaef · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:23:10 PM »

I'm not going to bother playing mind games with you. I'm just going to call shenanigans until you prove that order of abilities is a factor.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:24:02 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on July 30, 2009, 11:23:10 PM

I'm not going to bother playing mind games with you. I'm just going to call shenanigans until you prove that order of abilities is a factor.

When cards hit the draw pile, they reset. Micah and Asher can't be negated if the shuffling occurs before the Ur.

The Schaef · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:30:55 PM »

That doesn't make sense. I don't see how you are banding them in, then discarding them, then shuffling them, before playing Ur. And I don't see how Micah gets shuffled/reset/banded/anything at all in this combo.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:34:43 PM »

Doesn't Abe's Servant negate the search part of Creation, returning the Genesis heroes to the deck?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:35:36 PM »

That's where he thinks order of abilities come in, but I am pretty sure he is wrong.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:36:39 PM »

You band them in from the deck with Creation of the World.
The doubles are discard because of the unique rule.
The provisions and creations are shuffled by Micah when he hits the table.
The Urs are shuffled by Asher when he hits the table.
When Jacob hits the table last, he uses Ur.
Because the previous enhancements are already shuffled, the cards are reset and are not relocated in the negation.
When the combo goes again, you band in heroes from the draw pile and discard the ones in your territory.

Any more questions?

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on July 30, 2009, 11:34:43 PM

Doesn't Abe's Servant negate the search part of Creation, returning the Genesis heroes to the deck?

Doesn't negate banding.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:37:53 PM »

If it negates the search it indirectly negates the band.

Sean · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:38:34 PM »

Your combo falls apart where you think that the Enhancements resetting means that they don't get returned to where they came from.

The Schaef · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2009, 11:46:40 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on July 30, 2009, 11:36:39 PM

You band them in from the deck with Creation of the World.
The doubles are discard because of the unique rule.

Okay...

Quote

The provisions and creations are shuffled by Micah when he hits the table.
The Urs are shuffled by Asher when he hits the table.

Which cards would these be? First of all, any Provisions' and Creations' would be shuffled by Micah before he plays an Enhancement and second, they shuffle from the discard pile, they don't affect anything you have in play, so you always have to have another copy in hand.

Quote

When Jacob hits the table last, he uses Ur.

Okay...

Quote

Because the previous enhancements are already shuffled, the cards are reset and are not relocated in the negation.

This I do not follow. What previous Enhancements? The ones from your last turn which doesn't affect this battle?

Quote

Quote
Doesn't Abe's Servant negate the search part of Creation, returning the Genesis heroes to the deck?
Doesn't negate banding.

Read his post, please. He didn't say banding. He did say, correctly, that it negates the search in Creation and therefore sends them all back.

As far as I can tell, all you've done is produce the most elaborate FBN Provisioned Micah lone battle ever.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:03:40 AM »

I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.

As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way, but I'm sure the deck can simply switch Ur for a Reuben's Torn Clothes, or what not.

The Schaef · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:06:15 AM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on July 31, 2009, 12:03:40 AM

I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.

It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.

Quote

As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.

It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?

Colin Michael · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:15:08 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on July 31, 2009, 12:06:15 AM

Quote from: Colin Michael on July 31, 2009, 12:03:40 AM
I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.

It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.

Quote
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.

It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?

Silence fool!

Fine, it either doesn't work or I am explaining it wrong. I'll figure out a way to make it work sometime though, because I really like the main idea behind it.

Smokey · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:18:29 AM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on July 31, 2009, 12:15:08 AM

Quote from: The Schaef on July 31, 2009, 12:06:15 AM
Quote from: Colin Michael on July 31, 2009, 12:03:40 AM
I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.

It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.

Quote
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.

It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?

Silence fool! I am God!

Fine, it either doesn't work or I am explaining it wrong. I'll figure out a way to make it work sometime though, because I really like the main idea behind it.

No, your just blind to the combo that could come of copies of characters and this card

Colin Michael · « **Reply #29 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:21:58 AM »

Quote from: Smokey on July 31, 2009, 12:18:29 AM

Quote from: Colin Michael on July 31, 2009, 12:15:08 AM
Quote from: The Schaef on July 31, 2009, 12:06:15 AM
Quote from: Colin Michael on July 31, 2009, 12:03:40 AM
I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.

It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.

Quote
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.

It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?

Silence fool! I am God!

Fine, it either doesn't work or I am explaining it wrong. I'll figure out a way to make it work sometime though, because I really like the main idea behind it.

No, your just blind to the combo that could come of copies of characters and this card

I'm not, I'm just not saying.

Smokey · « **Reply #30 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:25:37 AM »

Suuuuuuure you do

Kor · « **Reply #31 on:** July 31, 2009, 02:58:13 AM »

You can't band to a character that you already control. I believe Creation of the world would count as a band, therefore you wouldn't be able to take out heroes you already had in play.

D-man · « **Reply #32 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:29:56 AM »

I don't understand your logic. You most certainly can band to characters that you control. *EDIT* I see what you're saying now.

And, in fact, I agree.

On a side note, I noticed that the Play As for Creation of the World needs fixing: "Search deck for all Genesis Heroes having and band them into battle."

happyjosiah · « **Reply #33 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:34:36 AM »

Quote from: Kor on July 31, 2009, 02:58:13 AM

You can't band to a character that you already control. I believe Creation of the world would count as a band, therefore you wouldn't be able to take out heroes you already had in play.

I have never heard this before. Is that in the rules somewhere?

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #34 on:** July 31, 2009, 10:31:02 AM »

I haven't found it explicitly stated, but it falls under controlling duplicate characters (i.e., if you already have a Captain in play, you can't band to your opponent's Captain to discard him). I think that doesn't apply here, since it's not an optional ability.

happyjosiah · « **Reply #35 on:** July 31, 2009, 10:43:14 AM »

From the REG under Creation of the World, Special Cases:

Multiple copies of unique characters may not be banded into the Field of Battle. The first copy of any unique
character is placed in the Field of Battle and all others are left in the draw pile.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #36 on:** July 31, 2009, 11:25:19 AM »

Quote from: happyjosiah on July 31, 2009, 10:43:14 AM

From the REG under Creation of the World, Special Cases:

Multiple copies of unique characters may not be banded into the Field of Battle. The first copy of any unique
character is placed in the Field of Battle and all others are left in the draw pile.

And with that, this discussion is over. Nice find happyjosiah!

TimMierz · « **Reply #37 on:** July 31, 2009, 11:43:06 AM »

That's not in the current REG, not least because cards no longer have "Special Cases" sections.

Colin Michael · « **Reply #38 on:** July 31, 2009, 01:55:47 PM »

Creation of the World is not a "may" and does not specify a specific target.

News:

Author Topic: Unique rule (Read 5223 times)

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

The Schaef

The Schaef

The Schaef

The Schaef