Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Colin Michael on July 30, 2009, 02:42:48 PM
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How exactly does the unique rule work?
If Creation of the World forces all Genesis heroes out of your deck, since it is not a may, it should force out doubles. In this case, it seems logical to me that the choice of which double to discard falls upon the owner.
Is this correct?
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A player may only have one copy of a card on the table that represents the same person.
I can have a Red David, Green David, and King David in my deck, but only one on my side of the table at a time. I believe this includes set asides and land of bondage as well.
If two end up under my control at once, I have to choose one to discard.
Answer the question?
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Answers the second question, however, does Creation of the World force doubles into play? If so, I've built a deck that breaks Type II.
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I believe it would, so I guess you have. Congrats!
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Well wouldn't that fall under clause two so to speak,
If two end up under my control at once, I have to choose one to discard.
So if it forced duplicates into control, you choose and discard the "extras".
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Well wouldn't that fall under clause two so to speak,
If two end up under my control at once, I have to choose one to discard.
So if it forced duplicates into control, you choose and discard the "extras".
Well, the follow up question is "does Creation of the World force all duplicates into play?" I think it does.
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I think it does also, so I believe you would have to discard multiple copies of cards. To bad you couldn't do it to your opponents Type 2 genesis deck, that could be quite cruel.
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... wow. Just wow. I think I may know what you're thinking of, and if I'm right might I just say ow.
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... wow. Just wow. I think I may know what you're thinking of, and if I'm right might I just say ow.
I came up with the idea for the deck before last nationals. I've tested it. It works. Infinite win condition.
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What's the rest of it?
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I made a deck like this about a year back
the whole idea was to play creation as soon as i could (put the duplicates in discard) to thin out my type 2 deck and draw the doms faster
then just use a chariots and creation again
I was about to win the state 1st place for type 2 when I creationed and got wrath of satan'd with no heroes left : -P
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(1) Provision Beniah
(2) Micah + Hidden Treasures + Creation of the World + all Genesis heroes from D-deck
(3) Discard all doubles (you have a double of every unique Genesis hero).
(4) Abraham's Servant to Ur on Jacob.
(Next turn)
(1) Activate Chariot of Fire
(2) RA Beniah, shuffle all Genesis heroes back.
(Next Turn)
Repeat combo getting back all enhancements with Micah and Asher (order of abilities prevents Micah and Asher from being negated by Jacob).
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Repeat combo getting back all enhancements with Micah and Asher (order of abilities prevents Micah and Asher from being negated by Jacob).
I'm confused.
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As am I.
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(1) Provision Beniah
(2) Micah + Hidden Treasures + Creation of the World + all Genesis heroes from D-deck
(3) Discard all doubles (you have a double of every unique Genesis hero).
(4) Abraham's Servant to Ur on Jacob.
(Next turn)
(1) Activate Chariot of Fire
(2) RA Beniah, shuffle all Genesis heroes back.
(Next Turn)
Repeat combo getting back all enhancements with Micah and Asher (order of abilities prevents Micah and Asher from being negated by Jacob).
Oh, that's not what I was thinking at all.
Also, I'm confused as well.
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I'll let you guys muse over it.
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I'm not going to bother playing mind games with you. I'm just going to call shenanigans until you prove that order of abilities is a factor.
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I'm not going to bother playing mind games with you. I'm just going to call shenanigans until you prove that order of abilities is a factor.
When cards hit the draw pile, they reset. Micah and Asher can't be negated if the shuffling occurs before the Ur.
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That doesn't make sense. I don't see how you are banding them in, then discarding them, then shuffling them, before playing Ur. And I don't see how Micah gets shuffled/reset/banded/anything at all in this combo.
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Doesn't Abe's Servant negate the search part of Creation, returning the Genesis heroes to the deck?
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That's where he thinks order of abilities come in, but I am pretty sure he is wrong.
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You band them in from the deck with Creation of the World.
The doubles are discard because of the unique rule.
The provisions and creations are shuffled by Micah when he hits the table.
The Urs are shuffled by Asher when he hits the table.
When Jacob hits the table last, he uses Ur.
Because the previous enhancements are already shuffled, the cards are reset and are not relocated in the negation.
When the combo goes again, you band in heroes from the draw pile and discard the ones in your territory.
Any more questions?
Doesn't Abe's Servant negate the search part of Creation, returning the Genesis heroes to the deck?
Doesn't negate banding.
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If it negates the search it indirectly negates the band.
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Your combo falls apart where you think that the Enhancements resetting means that they don't get returned to where they came from.
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You band them in from the deck with Creation of the World.
The doubles are discard because of the unique rule.
Okay...
The provisions and creations are shuffled by Micah when he hits the table.
The Urs are shuffled by Asher when he hits the table.
Which cards would these be? First of all, any Provisions' and Creations' would be shuffled by Micah before he plays an Enhancement and second, they shuffle from the discard pile, they don't affect anything you have in play, so you always have to have another copy in hand.
When Jacob hits the table last, he uses Ur.
Okay...
Because the previous enhancements are already shuffled, the cards are reset and are not relocated in the negation.
This I do not follow. What previous Enhancements? The ones from your last turn which doesn't affect this battle?
Doesn't Abe's Servant negate the search part of Creation, returning the Genesis heroes to the deck?
Doesn't negate banding.
Read his post, please. He didn't say banding. He did say, correctly, that it negates the search in Creation and therefore sends them all back.
As far as I can tell, all you've done is produce the most elaborate FBN Provisioned Micah lone battle ever.
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I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way, but I'm sure the deck can simply switch Ur for a Reuben's Torn Clothes, or what not.
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I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.
It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.
It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?
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I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.
It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.
It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?
Silence fool!
Fine, it either doesn't work or I am explaining it wrong. I'll figure out a way to make it work sometime though, because I really like the main idea behind it.
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I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.
It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.
It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?
Silence fool! I am God!
Fine, it either doesn't work or I am explaining it wrong. I'll figure out a way to make it work sometime though, because I really like the main idea behind it.
No, your just blind to the combo that could come of copies of characters and this card
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I don't know why you still can't figure out the first part, but it doesn't seem to matter at the moment.
It seems pretty critical to your combo, but no, I can't figure out how you are playing Enhancements and shuffling them immediately using cards that shuffle from the discard pile.
As for the Ur negating the search, that it news to me. It seems rather ridiculous that it would work in such a way.
It's ridiculous that a card that negates everything except banding negates you pulling cards out of your draw pile?
Silence fool! I am God!
Fine, it either doesn't work or I am explaining it wrong. I'll figure out a way to make it work sometime though, because I really like the main idea behind it.
No, your just blind to the combo that could come of copies of characters and this card
I'm not, I'm just not saying.
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Suuuuuuure you do ;)
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You can't band to a character that you already control. I believe Creation of the world would count as a band, therefore you wouldn't be able to take out heroes you already had in play.
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I don't understand your logic. You most certainly can band to characters that you control. *EDIT* I see what you're saying now. :) And, in fact, I agree.
On a side note, I noticed that the Play As for Creation of the World needs fixing: "Search deck for all Genesis Heroes having and band them into battle."
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You can't band to a character that you already control. I believe Creation of the world would count as a band, therefore you wouldn't be able to take out heroes you already had in play.
I have never heard this before. Is that in the rules somewhere?
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I haven't found it explicitly stated, but it falls under controlling duplicate characters (i.e., if you already have a Captain in play, you can't band to your opponent's Captain to discard him). I think that doesn't apply here, since it's not an optional ability.
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From the REG under Creation of the World, Special Cases:
Multiple copies of unique characters may not be banded into the Field of Battle. The first copy of any unique
character is placed in the Field of Battle and all others are left in the draw pile.
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From the REG under Creation of the World, Special Cases:
Multiple copies of unique characters may not be banded into the Field of Battle. The first copy of any unique
character is placed in the Field of Battle and all others are left in the draw pile.
And with that, this discussion is over. Nice find happyjosiah!
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That's not in the current REG, not least because cards no longer have "Special Cases" sections.
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Creation of the World is not a "may" and does not specify a specific target.