Author Topic: Three Woes  (Read 1713 times)

Offline Jonesy

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Three Woes
« on: May 21, 2017, 01:32:56 PM »
+1
Can I play Three Woes during SI to negate the thing removing me from battle?

Offline Gabe

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2017, 01:45:23 PM »
0
Can I play Three Woes during SI to negate the thing removing me from battle?

Quote from: REG>Glossary>Special Initiative
The player with their character(s) being removed has the opportunity to play an Enhancement that will interrupt or negate the ability that is causing the removal (or that triggered the corresponding game rule).
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2017, 01:54:15 PM »
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You could allow their removing ability to complete and remove your character, then you play Woes to negate the card and bring your character back from wherever it was removed to, right?

Offline Gabe

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2017, 02:12:48 PM »
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You could allow their removing ability to complete and remove your character, then you play Woes to negate the card and bring your character back from wherever it was removed to, right?

Assuming the card you want to negate is still in play, absolutely. It won't work on cards like Invoking Terror though.
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Offline Jeremystair

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2017, 03:15:20 PM »
0
During special initiative can you play a place card?

Offline Gabe

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2017, 03:47:45 PM »
0
During special initiative can you play a place card?

Only if it first interrupts or negates the card causing the removal. I don't think there's anything in the game that does that currently.
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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2017, 10:50:46 PM »
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May I ask a question in conjunction with this about Three Woes.  I notice it says on "each upkeep", does that mean it can be used more than once?  Sorry for the noob question, but being a dominant I assumed it was just used one round and that was it, but then I realized what it said.

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2017, 10:52:26 PM »
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May I ask a question in conjunction with this about Three Woes.  I notice it says on "each upkeep", does that mean it can be used more than once?  Sorry for the noob question, but being a dominant I assumed it was just used one round and that was it, but then I realized what it said.

Three Woes is placed in your territory when used and remains there. Each upkeep you can choose a target for it to negate for that round, as written on the card.

Adevine

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2017, 11:06:55 PM »
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May I ask a question in conjunction with this about Three Woes.  I notice it says on "each upkeep", does that mean it can be used more than once?  Sorry for the noob question, but being a dominant I assumed it was just used one round and that was it, but then I realized what it said.

Three Woes is placed in your territory when used and remains there. Each upkeep you can choose a target for it to negate for that round, as written on the card.

So it plays more like an artifact that is always active, but is either a Lamb or reaper dominant depending on what you chose when you placed it in your territory?  I am trying to think of how to explain this to my 9yr old who loves the card. LOL

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2017, 11:10:02 PM »
0
May I ask a question in conjunction with this about Three Woes.  I notice it says on "each upkeep", does that mean it can be used more than once?  Sorry for the noob question, but being a dominant I assumed it was just used one round and that was it, but then I realized what it said.

Three Woes is placed in your territory when used and remains there. Each upkeep you can choose a target for it to negate for that round, as written on the card.

So it plays more like an artifact that is always active, but is either a Lamb or reaper dominant depending on what you chose when you placed it in your territory?  I am trying to think of how to explain this to my 9yr old who loves the card. LOL

I suppose that would be a way to think if it, an artifact you can activate any time from hand that doesn't take up the spot on your artifact pile.

Offline jbeers285

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2017, 08:18:12 PM »
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You could allow their removing ability to complete and remove your character, then you play Woes to negate the card and bring your character back from wherever it was removed to, right?

Assuming the card you want to negate is still in play, absolutely. It won't work on cards like Invoking Terror though.


Let say for example you play a card that captures my last hero in battle. I don't play in SI. I then play 3 Woes to negate the capturing card. My hero goes back into battle. You play another capture card. Do I get SI again?
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Adevine

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2017, 09:03:31 AM »
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Thanks!  I know it is not an artifact, just trying to think of how to explain it to the kids.  But it does involve a normal upkeep each round, so to speak.  If I am understanding things correctly.

Offline Jeremystair

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2017, 01:03:42 PM »
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You could allow their removing ability to complete and remove your character, then you play Woes to negate the card and bring your character back from wherever it was removed to, right?

Assuming the card you want to negate is still in play, absolutely. It won't work on cards like Invoking Terror though.

Does this still work if your hero is being removed from Battle? Can you let the ability complete and remove your hero from the game and then play the three woes to negate the removal and add your hero back to battle?

Offline Josh

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2017, 01:16:03 PM »
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Let say for example you play a card that captures my last hero in battle. I don't play in SI. I then play 3 Woes to negate the capturing card. My hero goes back into battle. You play another capture card. Do I get SI again?

Yes.

Does this still work if your hero is being removed from Battle? Can you let the ability complete and remove your hero from the game and then play the three woes to negate the removal and add your hero back to battle?

Yes.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2017, 01:18:33 PM »
+1
Like Gabe said, it all depends on what type of card is removing your Hero from battle.

If it is a card like Invoking Terror played on a multi-brigade magician so it goes under deck, it is no longer in play to be negated.

The same would also apply to cards like Deceit of Sapphira or Joseph in Prison. When those complete, they are removed from play and no longer are eligible targets for 3 Woes.

Bottom line: 3 Woes cannot be used in SI. It can be played after SI, but before battle resolution begins (when the enhancements that removed your character are discarded) in order to bring a character back to resume the battle.

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Offline soul seeker

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2017, 08:03:37 AM »
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You could allow their removing ability to complete and remove your character, then you play Woes to negate the card and bring your character back from wherever it was removed to, right?

Assuming the card you want to negate is still in play, absolutely. It won't work on cards like Invoking Terror though.
John and I was discussing this last night, and I think I've put my finger on why I disagree with a played 3 Woes being able to negate a battle winner.
Here's why...
   The battle winner is played.
   The EC is removed thus signalling Battle Resolution..then without 3 Woes, play proceeds to Discard Phase.
      However, with 3 Woes...the game is backed up a phase and that doesn't seem right.
   The  phase moves from Battle Resolution back to Battle Phase...essentially acting as if it was played by Special Initiative.
 
I will admit that I may be misunderstanding the game phases, but it seems wrong to back pedal in phases in the game. 
More so, it appears as if the dominant is being played during special initiative.  So if the ruling stands, then why not allow dominants to be played during special initiative?

I guess, I'm curious on why this is able to be done (backing from Battle Resolution to battle phase)?
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2017, 08:09:04 AM »
+4
The EC is removed thus signalling Battle Resolution..

This is your problem. The battle doesn't move to resolution just because one side has no characters. Even if you have no character in battle the battle is still happening while you have a chance to use something like You Will Remain, Angel of the Lord, or in this case, Three Woes.

Offline Jonesy

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2017, 02:15:10 PM »
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Grapes is a popular play once they remove your hero from battle as well

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2017, 02:19:41 PM »
+1
The EC is removed thus signalling Battle Resolution..

This is your problem. The battle doesn't move to resolution just because one side has no characters. Even if you have no character in battle the battle is still happening while you have a chance to use something like You Will Remain, Angel of the Lord, or in this case, Three Woes.

Correct.

The only ability that moves the battle directly to battle resolution is an "End the Battle" ability. Ergo Three Woes cannot be used to negate something like Heavy Taxes or Deceitful Sin.

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Offline soul seeker

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2017, 08:32:52 PM »
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Thanks for the clarification.  That helps me process the card a bit better because prior to that I thought (as you could see in my thought process) it was a contradiction in REG def and how it was played/ruled.
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Adevine

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2017, 03:55:34 PM »
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I have a question, when played, where does 3woes belong?

Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2017, 03:56:31 PM »
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You can just place it where ever you want in your territory, but typically somewhere near the top.
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Adevine

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2017, 04:00:26 PM »
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You can just place it where ever you want in your territory, but typically somewhere near the top.

Thanks, I am not used to a dominant remaining in play.  Plus this card is still confusing me for some reason.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 04:06:15 PM by Adevine »

Offline JDS

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2020, 05:45:23 PM »
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What happens after an upkeep when Three Woes targets the ongoing ability of a territory class character that cannot be prevented? Does the character's ability work again in the following phase?

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Three Woes
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2020, 07:37:16 PM »
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CBP only stops an ability from being negated before it activates, and abilities on TC characters only activate when they enter battle (or territory). If the Woes'd character entered battle (and/or territory) it would work through Woes, since the ability reactivates as CBP at those points.