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Warrior_Monk

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TEAMS question...
« on: May 11, 2011, 01:16:48 PM »
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Quote from: Team Play Official Rules
Only 1 of each dominant may be played by a TEAM.  When they are played they are given to the other TEAM to put into their LOR to remember which have already been played (they do not count as redeemed souls, of course) until the end of the game.

Just curious what happens with SoG + NJ. For example, if player A plays SoG defensively, then his teammate cannot play SoG + NJ, and just use the effect of NJ, correct?

If player A plays SoG + NJ, and his opponent has Judas' Plot out, where does the other dominant go? Under the deck? Into the LoR?
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Offline galadgawyn

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 01:57:27 PM »
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1. yes, the teammate could only play NJ and of course it won't do anything by itself.

2. Into the LoR, I think. 

I was going to say that since the team didn't get to actually use the Dom since it was insteaded then it would go into deck and they would get a chance to use it later.  But then I thought of AoL/CM and Herod's Temple.  You play those and the opposing team insteads them and then your teammate plays them and the opposing team has to instead them a second time.  The rule was put in place to not have the game be mostly determined by which team got all their dominants out. 

This quetion just made me think of something else, though.  When the rule was made it didn't matter if dominants you had used were in the discard pile or not since no cards targeted them.  What about Philetus? though?  Will his protect souls ability not be able to target Dominants in teams?  I think when we played him, we just let him remove one from "remembrance" pile but now I don't think that technically can happen. 

So I wonder with these new cards if that team rule needs to be revised.  How do you insure that each team only plays one of each dominant but allow Dominants to be in their normal location so as not to alter some mechanics?  Maybe:

1. My favorite - no doms allowed in teams

2. You keep track seperately by writing it down or having a seperate set of doms that you flip when played or some other method.

Not sure what else you could do.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2011, 02:26:40 PM »
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So, if both my teammate and I have Judas' Plot out, than they lose SoG + NJ?
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Offline crustpope

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2011, 02:43:57 PM »
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Actually, I disagree with Jon.  They were not played, they were insteaded by Judas Curse.  the Ability of Judas Curse completes before any game rule about putting Dom's in Opponents LOR takes place and Judas Curse would place them beneath the owners deck.  By then they are out of play.  Besides I am sure that being insteaded changes their status of being "Played" anyway.

I would rule that they still keep their doms, just at the bottom of the deck.

The deal with Philetus is a very good question though.  Are they technically in the discard pile but we keep them in LOR to remember or are they really in the LOR?  If so that means Philetus cannot touch them or use them
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2011, 03:06:31 PM »
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Quote from: crustpope on May 11, 2011, 02:43:57 PM
Actually, I disagree with Jon.  They were not played, they were insteaded by Judas Curse.  the Ability of Judas Curse completes before any game rule about putting Dom's in Opponents LOR takes place and Judas Curse would place them beneath the owners deck.  By then they are out of play.  Besides I am sure that being insteaded changes their status of being "Played" anyway.

I would rule that they still keep their doms, just at the bottom of the deck.
Instead changes their status of being played? That's new. If you play SoG + NJ, and SoG goes under, than NJ shouldn't work since SoG was no longer "played"
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browarod

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2011, 03:26:51 PM »
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I sometimes keep Provisions and the Priests one turn set asides in my territory until I use the hero they affect just to remind myself that the ability is there to be used, but they're technically in the discard pile at that point. I would think teams doms are similar.
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Offline crustpope

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2011, 03:53:08 PM »
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Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 11, 2011, 03:06:31 PM
Quote from: crustpope on May 11, 2011, 02:43:57 PM
Actually, I disagree with Jon.  They were not played, they were insteaded by Judas Curse.  the Ability of Judas Curse completes before any game rule about putting Dom's in Opponents LOR takes place and Judas Curse would place them beneath the owners deck.  By then they are out of play.  Besides I am sure that being insteaded changes their status of being "Played" anyway.

I would rule that they still keep their doms, just at the bottom of the deck.
Instead changes their status of being played? That's new. If you play SoG + NJ, and SoG goes under, than NJ shouldn't work since SoG was no longer "played"

Well, then my first argument still works with SoG still being out of play and under deck before the game rule of sticking it in the LoR kicks in.

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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2011, 04:19:39 PM »
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Insteading doesn't undo it from being played. If I instead your SOG, neither you or your team mate should be able to play it again, considering the rule is only one of each dominant can be played per team.
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browarod

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2011, 04:26:48 PM »
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I think it comes down to the definition of "play" versus the exact wording of the Teams rule about dominants.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2011, 04:41:05 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on May 11, 2011, 04:26:48 PM
I think it comes down to the definition of "play" versus the exact wording of the Teams rule about dominants.

The problem is, TEAMS isn't really taken into consideration (or hasn't been) when designing cards. Perhaps it should be, but obviously in this case we have a rule that causes a confusing situation. I see two options: Either

a) Amend the rule so that it doesn't use the word "played" but rather something to the effect of "If your dominant would be discarded due to you playing it, place it in your LoR. Your teammate is disallowed from playing it."

b) Ban Dominants or Judas' Plot from TEAMS play--not likely considering how long TEAMS games can take WITH dominants.

As for the Philetus question, I would rule that Philetus can choose a card in an LoR, but that the card just stays there.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 04:46:08 PM by Professoralstad »
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browarod

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2011, 04:43:05 PM »
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I prefer A, obviously, as long as you intended to put "Your teammate is disallowed from playing it," lol.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2011, 04:45:49 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on May 11, 2011, 04:43:05 PM
I prefer A, obviously, as long as you intended to put "Your teammate is disallowed from playing it," lol.

Right. Fixed.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2011, 05:29:43 PM »
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Quote from: crustpope on May 11, 2011, 02:43:57 PM
The deal with Philetus is a very good question though.  Are they technically in the discard pile but we keep them in LOR to remember or are they really in the LOR?
They are really in the discard pile, but we keep them in the LoR to remember.

Quote from: browarod on May 11, 2011, 03:26:51 PM
I sometimes keep Provisions and the Priests one turn set asides in my territory until I use the hero they affect just to remind myself that the ability is there to be used, but they're technically in the discard pile at that point. I would think teams doms are similar.
Exactly :)
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2011, 12:54:15 PM »
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I'm pretty sure I've grabbed a Provisions of one of my heroes in territory with Micah, and my opponent was really confused until I explained it...
Quote from: Professoralstad on May 11, 2011, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: browarod on May 11, 2011, 04:26:48 PM
I think it comes down to the definition of "play" versus the exact wording of the Teams rule about dominants.
The problem is, TEAMS isn't really taken into consideration (or hasn't been) when designing cards. Perhaps it should be, but obviously in this case we have a rule that causes a confusing situation. I see two options: Either
This is really frustrating. At Iowa State, I found out that "same player" meant the same team...we gave half of one 3 liner to one person and half of another to the other, and we thought they couldn't play SoG NJ on them...(thankfully for us) they also thought the same, until Gabe came over and told us otherwise, but Mayhem had been played by then...
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2011, 04:54:04 PM »
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Quote from: Ring Wraith on May 12, 2011, 12:54:15 PM
This is really frustrating. At Iowa State, I found out that "same player" meant the same team...we gave half of one 3 liner to one person and half of another to the other, and we thought they couldn't play SoG NJ on them...(thankfully for us) they also thought the same, until Gabe came over and told us otherwise, but Mayhem had been played by then...
First of all, this isn't a design flaw due to the fact that the 3-liner LS came out loooooong before TEAMS was even considered to be an official category.

Secondly, I'm not sure that I agree with the ruling at Iowa State.  I think that "same player" should be defined as a specific player, not merely as the "same team".
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2011, 04:57:40 PM »
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Thirdly, Mayhem was played before we gave them half the second one. The one that had SOG NJ just wasn't the one to have rescued the first one, so we thought he couldn't have played it.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: TEAMS question...
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2011, 05:14:06 PM »
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Okay, so I misunderstood a bit.

It would be nice to get an official ruling on the 3 Liner. I think same player should be same player...
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