Author Topic: Split Altar (Read 16918 times)

TimMierz · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2012, 09:31:34 AM »

Looking at the original Split Altar thread, I see I was the one who brought up the not-the-whole-pile issue in the first place (and fought against errata for it). Let me know when I'm officially banned from the boards. I'll start packing my things.

Red · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2012, 01:34:54 PM »

My

: Original intent should always trump wording errors. Pokemon errata's cards that don't work as intended. Thus split altar needs the power it deserves.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #27 on:** February 20, 2012, 05:53:33 PM »

Again I'd say just make a new card with the intended ability or make a reprint with correct wording. Then you don't have to make an exception errata for a card that's not broken and people who would have used SA in a deck will get their chance.

Josh · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2012, 08:12:25 AM »

Quote

Split Altar (P)

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: • Special Ability: Shuffle all Artifacts of each opponent into owners’ deck. You may play the next Enhancement. Cannot be negated. • Play As: Shuffle [return] all Artifacts of each opponent into owners’ deck. You may play an Enhancement. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT, Based on Prophecy • Verse: I Kings 13:3 • Availability: Promotional cards (2008 National Tournament)

Quote

A New Beginning (Pa)

Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: 4 / 5 • Class: None • Special Ability: ALL players shuffle ALL cards in the field of play, set-aside areas and their hands back into their draw pile. Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain. ALL players Draw 8 new cards. Holder may begin a new turn. • Errata: If making a rescue attempt, remove this card from the game to shuffle [return] all cards in play, set aside areas, and hands into decks. End the battle. All players draw 8. End the turn. Begin a new turn. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 8:15-17 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Ultra Rare)

The real question is, after reading the abilities of Split Altar and A New Beginning, why does A New Beginning shuffle face-down artifacts but Split Altar does not?

TimMierz · « **Reply #29 on:** February 22, 2012, 09:14:46 AM »

My guess is because ANB says (or at least said) "Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain."

STAMP · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:58:53 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on February 22, 2012, 09:14:46 AM

My guess is because ANB says (or at least said) "Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain."

but protection still works.

lp670sv · « **Reply #31 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:00:28 PM »

As STAMP is the foremost authority on ANB, his agreeing is good enough for me

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #32 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:31:18 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on February 22, 2012, 09:14:46 AM

My guess is because ANB says (or at least said) "Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain."

It's actually because artifact piles are in the field of play.

lp670sv · « **Reply #33 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:41:21 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on February 22, 2012, 03:31:18 PM

Quote from: TimMierz on February 22, 2012, 09:14:46 AM
My guess is because ANB says (or at least said) "Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain."

It's actually because artifact piles are in the field of play.

it doesn't say "in the field of play" it says in play. which facedown arts are not.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #34 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:50:37 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on February 22, 2012, 03:41:21 PM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on February 22, 2012, 03:31:18 PM
Quote from: TimMierz on February 22, 2012, 09:14:46 AM
My guess is because ANB says (or at least said) "Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain."

It's actually because artifact piles are in the field of play.
it doesn't say "in the field of play" it says in play. which facedown arts are not.

I can't find the original thread now, but that is the logic that Gabe used.

TimMierz · « **Reply #35 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:58:50 PM »

So "in the field of play" is different than "in play"? That's strange, considering the REG definition of "In Play" is:

Quote

In Play means within the Field of Play.

lp670sv · « **Reply #36 on:** February 22, 2012, 04:03:17 PM »

if that were the case split altar would work as intended since artifact piles are art of the field of play

Korunks · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:23:40 AM »

Can we get some more input because right now it looks like Split Altar should work right now. Unless we have all been playing ANB wrong for years, and years.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #38 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:37:26 AM »

I've heard (from STAMP, so you know it's good) that ANB hits art piles because of the caps in ALL.

STAMP · « **Reply #39 on:** February 23, 2012, 12:32:23 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 23, 2012, 11:37:26 AM

I've heard (from STAMP, so you know it's good) that ANB hits art piles because of the caps in ALL.

It's just one of the things mentioned years ago before they tightened up the definitions of targeting areas, i.e. "in play", "not in battle", etc. It caused quite a bit of discussion, as it no doubt does even to this day. I always mention the "ALL" as tongue-in-cheek.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #40 on:** February 23, 2012, 12:33:48 PM »

NOW you tell me....

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #41 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:05:39 PM »

I agree that this needs to be clarified, since I believe it recently came up in another thread as well (the difference between Field of Play and In Play).

Red Warrior · « **Reply #42 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:18:27 PM »

Battle and Field of Battle have very different functional definitions (at least where side battles are concerned) so it wouldn't be a stretch for Play and Field of Play to have different definitions... not a huge fan of the idea, but there is pseudo-precedent

Ironica · « **Reply #43 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:20:49 PM »

They would probably just change the errata on ANB then create one for SA (though, that might be one step closer to STAMP's errata of ANB

).

TimMierz · « **Reply #44 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:25:44 PM »

Quote from: Red Warrior on February 23, 2012, 03:18:27 PM

Battle and Field of Battle have very different functional definitions (at least where side battles are concerned) so it wouldn't be a stretch for Play and Field of Play to have different definitions... not a huge fan of the idea, but there is pseudo-precedent

Right now, the REG defines 'in battle' and 'in the Field of Battle' differently. The REG doesn't distinguish between 'in play' and 'in the Field of Play' (and in fact equates the two), so there'd have to be an actual rules change for there to be such a distinction (when I don't believe any is necessary).

browarod · « **Reply #45 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:40:30 PM »

The REG contradicts itself in regards to "in play" and the "field of play." Your post is one half of the contradiction, the other is below:

Quote from: REG

Artifact Pile

An artifact pile contains a player’s grail icon cards. This pile is located in the player’s territory within the Field of Play. See Player’s Card Arrangement .

The Artifact Pile is in territory, meaning it's in the field of play, however face-down artifacts in that pile are not "in play" therefore "in play" and "field of play" cannot be (and aren't) synonymous.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #46 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:13:06 PM »

Quote from: browarod on February 23, 2012, 03:40:30 PM

The REG contradicts itself in regards to "in play" and the "field of play." Your post is one half of the contradiction, the other is below:

Quote from: REG
Artifact Pile

An artifact pile contains a player’s grail icon cards. This pile is located in the player’s territory within the Field of Play. See Player’s Card Arrangement .

The Artifact Pile is in territory, meaning it's in the field of play, however face-down artifacts in that pile are not "in play" therefore "in play" and "field of play" cannot be (and aren't) synonymous.

Or the artifact piles not being "in play" was simply ruled wrong. Either way it's a pretty huge contradiction.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #47 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:34:33 PM »

The artifact pile is in play, but the face down artifacts aren't in play.

I'm not sure if this post should be serious or not.

However this is why I think that face down cards shouldn't automatically be considered not in play, they just can only be targeted by their restrictions (a face down hero can only be targeted by a card that says it targets a hero and such) There could even be a rule that you can only by default target the top artifact on an artifact pile, much like drawing cards is always from the top, if you don't want people randomly discarding face down artifacts with cards that say "discard an artifact" (not that I have a problem with that).

Jmbeers · « **Reply #48 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:58:59 PM »

The above couldn't work without affecting the Imperial Guard wich specifically targets the artifact pile and not the active artifact. No matter what a card some how some where will be getting changed. Just right now the read headed step chilaled is Split Altar.

Korunks · « **Reply #49 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:01:24 PM »

Quote from: Jmbeers on February 23, 2012, 04:58:59 PM

The above couldn't work without affecting the Imperial Guard wich specifically targets the artifact pile and not the active artifact. No matter what a card some how some where will be getting changed. Just right now the read headed step chilaled is Split Altar.

Again

But Seriously there is a discrepency here. Why does ANB get to shuffle the Artifact Pile, and not Split Altar.

News:

Author Topic: Split Altar (Read 16918 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Ironica

browarod

Chronic Apathy