Author Topic: question abotu initiative (Read 5978 times)

crustpope · « **on:** April 21, 2009, 04:34:38 PM »

can a player interrupt an conversion to play confusion and then become converted?

also do weapon class enhancements convert with their charachter

ie do 2khorses convert with their charachter to blue when convereted?

Arch Angel · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:38:18 PM »

Assuming the conversion card can be Interrupted, then yes.

crustpope · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:38:37 PM »

need an answer pretty soon because i am in RTS

crustpope · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:41:16 PM »

Quote from: Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend on April 21, 2009, 04:38:18 PM

Assuming the conversion card can be Interrupted, then yes.

so you can interrupt the convert, play confusion and then turn blue? I always thought that you had to deal with the converstion/discard/capture instead of just firing off one last enhancement

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:42:57 PM »

The rulebook just says that the only card that can be played is an interrupt. It does not specify that cards played during the interrupt have to stop the removal.

The Schaef · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:44:03 PM »

No, matt, you can do whatever you want while you're interrupting, because the new effect is placing itself in front of the old. It's just that if you don't stop the conversion, then it's interrupt, do the other thing, and then you get converted.

It's similar to if someone plays Words or Reach. By themselves, they don't stop the conversion. They interrupt, draw, and you get to play next. If you don't have another card to play after that literal reach of desperation, then you can't do anything else and you lose the battle. But you still got to draw in the meantime.

crustpope · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:44:27 PM »

OK can someone answer the second question up there too?

does 2k horses convert with the converted EC?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:45:12 PM »

Instant Abilities > Convert > Default Conditions

• Weapon-class enhancements stay with a converted character; the special ability continues to function if it does not conflict with the nature of the converted character (see Weapon-class Enhancements in the rulebook [p. 35].

The Schaef · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:45:36 PM »

Quote

If a warrior is converted, weapons remain on the character. The special ability on the weapon continues to function provided it does not conflict with the nature of a Hero or Evil Character.

crustpope · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:47:12 PM »

ok thanks

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2009, 05:23:39 PM »

I know that Chris rules it this way but here's the scenario
Lydia rescues has a discard played against her.
Lydia interupts with Reach, plays something random.
At this point lydia is again losing by removal, can she play Words of encouragement? or any other interupt?
Chris rules yes - is that official or just something quirky that we do in rochester?

sk · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2009, 06:00:37 PM »

There was talk about limiting to one interrupt to stop a removal, but I'm pretty sure it got shot down.

BTW, note that Lydia can't play a purple enhancement if her ongoing ability is interrupted.

STAMP · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2009, 06:15:55 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 21, 2009, 05:23:39 PM

I know that Chris rules it this way but here's the scenario
Lydia rescues has a discard played against her.
Lydia interupts with Reach, plays something random.
At this point lydia is again losing by removal, can she play Words of encouragement? or any other interupt?
Chris rules yes - is that official or just something quirky that we do in rochester?

It's the same in the NW. You can play multiple interrupts if you continue to be losing by removal.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2009, 06:25:07 PM »

That doesn't make any sense. You have initative to interrupt, so you do. You didn't stop the removal, so you are removed. Granting unlimited interrupts seems abusive.

Scottie_ffgamer · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2009, 06:37:39 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on April 21, 2009, 06:25:07 PM

That doesn't make any sense. You have initative to interrupt, so you do. You didn't stop the removal, so you are removed. Granting unlimited interrupts seems abusive.

Why's that? The interrupt is finished - the interrupt and the ability of whatever other card you played have been placed in front of the removal - so the removal kicks back in. What's wrong with giving you another chance to interrupt it if you can?

Arch Angel · « **Reply #15 on:** April 21, 2009, 07:26:59 PM »

Once the first interrupt stops you're still losing by removal, so by all rights you should be able to interrupt again.

FresnoRedemption · « **Reply #16 on:** April 21, 2009, 07:30:09 PM »

I would think you could use as many interrupts as you have in your hand. After all, if you're blocking with a 1/1 Evil Character, and your opponent has a 9/9 Hero, even though you'll be losing by the numbers for awhile, you're still free to interrupt the battle as many times as you can/want. Why would losing by removal be any different?

Bryon · « **Reply #17 on:** April 21, 2009, 07:40:20 PM »

You didn't stop the removal, so you are still losing by removal. So, you can play another interrupt.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #18 on:** April 21, 2009, 08:06:59 PM »

Obviously everyone agrees and plays it that way, so I am the lone dissenter. However, it seems that the idea behind "last gasp" interrupts is that you get one chance to do something. You can try to stop the removal, but otherwise you just go down swinging.

You should only get one "last chance" IMO.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #19 on:** April 21, 2009, 09:08:36 PM »

YMT -

What if your "last chance" is thwarted without being negated?

Example:
RA with Peter, blocked by Leviathan. Freedom to remove Leviathan, Dream + Coliseum Lions to interrupt and discard Peter, Walking on Water to give Peter immunity. Leviathan's still losing by the same removal, so can another interrupt be played?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #20 on:** April 21, 2009, 10:38:35 PM »

I was thinking more from the idea of a "last chance" initiative. In the scenario you described, initiative passes back to me because my opponent played cards.

FresnoRedemption · « **Reply #21 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:00:26 PM »

Initiative only passes from one to the other in the case of a stalemate or mutual destruction. If he hasn't negated the card removing him, then your opponent is still losing by removal and still has initiative.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #22 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:03:49 PM »

Initiative passed to me when Freedom was played.
Initiative passed back to my opponent when I played Dream and Coliseum Lions.
Initiative passed back to me when my opponent played Walking on Water.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #23 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:48:56 PM »

How often does the multiple interrupt scenario come up anyway? I'd think it's not very often, and rewriting the rule to limit it to one interrupt seems tedious.

Also, in the scenario I presented, could the defender play Treachery of Jezebel (Crimson's negate last)? Freedom is causing the removal and Treachery of Jezebel wouldn't target it, but would negate it indirectly by negating Walking on Water.

The Schaef · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2009, 07:35:12 AM »

Negating Walking on Water would cancel out Peter's immunity, which means that Coliseum Lions would discard him before the Freedom card could have its effect, just like before it was played.

crustpope · « **Reply #25 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:30:24 AM »

IMO and this is how I have always played you get one chance to interrupt a battle winner that is targeting you and hasa passed you inititative. If you interrupt and play something else, then the card that is targeting you gets to do what it has done. Initiative was passed to you, you played a card and so then the battle winner taked effect. This nonsense about interrupting, playing an enhancement and then interrupting again seems foolish and contrary to the spirit of the game to me.

Quote from: Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend on April 21, 2009, 07:26:59 PM

Once the first interrupt stops you're still losing by removal, so by all rights you should be able to interrupt again.

my response to this would be:

Once the first interrupt stops you're still losing by removal, so by all rights you should be removed from the game.

But believe me, now that I know that this is how it is played, I plan on abusing you all with it.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #26 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:44:37 AM »

Quote from: crustpope on April 22, 2009, 09:30:24 AM

Once the first interrupt stops you're still losing by removal, so by all rights you should be removed from the game.

In that case in a defeat-by-numbers situation you should also only get the chance to play one enhancement. You're losing by numbers, and if you don't stop it after 1 enhancement then you 'wasted' your initiative.

That, of course, makes no sense, and neither does allowing only 1 interrupt/negates to be played. Chain of negate scenarios happen quite frequently up here in the northeast, and it's just a part of the game mechanics. If you're losing, you get the chance to play a card, period. After the card's been played, you check to see who's losing now and then the losing character gets to play and enhancement. If you're in a removal scenario and you play an interrupt-play-next card, it allows you to play next regardless of the next card's ability. Then when the interrupt ends, you're still losing by removal so you can still play another negate/interrupt. It's a similar concept as continuous initiative from Ignore/Repel abilities.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #27 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:46:16 AM »

you can abuse it all you want- your still going to losing by removal and im going to get a lost soul

crustpope · « **Reply #28 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:53:42 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on April 22, 2009, 09:46:16 AM

you can abuse it all you want- your still going to losing by removal and im going to get a lost soul

yeah, except for doms, cards that target LS ( like belshazzars feast or DoU) and, of course playing a battle winner on you during my final interrupt.

crustpope · « **Reply #29 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:57:25 AM »

Quote from: Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend on April 22, 2009, 09:44:37 AM

Quote from: crustpope on April 22, 2009, 09:30:24 AM
Once the first interrupt stops you're still losing by removal, so by all rights you should be removed from the game.
In that case in a defeat-by-numbers situation you should also only get the chance to play one enhancement. You're losing by numbers, and if you don't stop it after 1 enhancement then you 'wasted' your initiative.

Except battle winners are Instant abilities and BTN are ongoing abilitites to there is a little bit of difference between them. What is the purpose of instant abilities if they aren't instant and can be constantly delayed? this is what I dont really like about this near continuous interrupt loop idea.

The Schaef · « **Reply #30 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:36:02 AM »

most of the time you need two cards per interrupt: one to interrupt and play next, and another to do something nasty. Good luck stringing together a lot of those together, or even doing such a combo more than once in a game. I honestly think if this could be exploited to the point of abuse, it would have been done by now.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #31 on:** April 22, 2009, 02:34:43 PM »

I agree schaef

STAMP · « **Reply #32 on:** April 22, 2009, 07:06:16 PM »

It can be done in T2. However, I think the majority of players are focused on playing the ideal "winner" on the card after the interrupt. I think some of our better players could come up with a pretty good deck design that relied entirely on a meta game of collateral damage.

Interrupt, do something unexpected, interrupt, do something unexpected,..., withdraw.

lightningninja · « **Reply #33 on:** April 22, 2009, 07:16:44 PM »

That's awesome! With my orange/gray deck, I could go in with beast+galba, they play a battle winner I play chariots and horses+gray hand discard+another interrupt+heavy taxes! Woo-Hoo!

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #34 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:26:35 PM »

cmon- you guys act like this is new or something. If you want to know about brand new strategies incorporated into the game of Redemption you should check out (EDITED BY THE ROSES)

lightningninja · « **Reply #35 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:49:05 PM »

It's funny... cause whatever you were gonna say I'd know. But you don't actually know anything to spoil.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #36 on:** April 23, 2009, 01:38:11 AM »

or maybe if i said something i wouldnt get to see any other new sets after this one:p

lightningninja · « **Reply #37 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:16:44 PM »

HAHA, that could be. And I love how "R.O.S.E.S" Changes every time someone edits themselves.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #38 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:31:32 PM »

Quote from: lightningninja on April 23, 2009, 05:16:44 PM

And I love how "R.O.S.E.S" Changes every time someone edits themselves.

They are not editing themselves. There happens to be several members of the secret society that edit in their own way. That is why RoSeS is plural.

lightningninja · « **Reply #39 on:** April 23, 2009, 05:34:16 PM »

Oh... that makes total sense...

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #40 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:24:20 AM »

YMT,
I understand your confusion as I was unaware of this rule until last year. I have only seen it occur 2-3 times out of over a thousand of games in T1, so it does little to even affect T1 play. In T2, it happens more frequently, but as people said, usually the player will not want to waste two interrupts on the same battle.

Kirk

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Author Topic: question abotu initiative (Read 5978 times)

The Schaef

The Schaef

Scottie_ffgamer

FresnoRedemption

FresnoRedemption

The Schaef

The Schaef