Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: DaClock on August 20, 2009, 10:34:54 PM
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Placing a card in the discard pile removes it from play, but does not remove the ability to negate it by (1) interrupting the battle or (2) interrupting the last enhancement played in battle. However, a "negate last enhancement" negates the last enhancement regardless of its current state (in play, discard pile, converted to a character, etc.). -REG under Interrupt and Negate Last -Special Conditions
Axe - If used by a Babylonian, you may discard this card to discard a Fotress. Opponent may discard one of his Sites instead.
Blessings - Negate all special abilities on all characters and enhancements except this one. Battle is determined by the numbers.
Okay, rescue with White Hero, blocked by Crimson EC with Axe. Opponent discard Axe to discard a fortress, then plays a battle winner. I play Blessings. Is Axe negated?
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Nope.
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A Negate all isn't a "Negate Last" or "interrupt the battle" and since abilities Default to in Play, Axe isn't negated.
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It is an interrupt the battle by definition.
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It is an interrupt the battle by definition.
Well, you're not interrupting the battle, you're interrupting the special ability on the enhancement. Or does it amount to basically the same thing?
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You can't interrupt a card that was discarded. Uzzah can't be interrupted, Death of Unrighteous, and all other cards like that. You can't negate and discard Covenant of Noah when it is used. Once a card is discarded it is out of play. The only way to negate it is if there were cards that say "negate the effect of the last card that was discarded" which would be a totally retarded SA.
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You can't interrupt a card that was discarded. Uzzah can't be interrupted, Death of Unrighteous, and all other cards like that. You can't negate and discard Covenant of Noah when it is used. Once a card is discarded it is out of play. The only way to negate it is if there were cards that say "negate the effect of the last card that was discarded" which would be a totally retarded SA.
Uzzah can be interupted...
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You can't interrupt a card that was discarded. Uzzah can't be interrupted, Death of Unrighteous, and all other cards like that. You can't negate and discard Covenant of Noah when it is used. Once a card is discarded it is out of play. The only way to negate it is if there were cards that say "negate the effect of the last card that was discarded" which would be a totally retarded SA.
Uzzah can be interupted...
how?
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If you somehow got initiative to play an enhancement (EG Angel's Sword) you certainly could interrupt those cards with either a "Negate last" or "interrupt the battle" ability.
As far as I'm aware, though, "Negate All" abilities default to in play. Does a banded in Captain of the Host negate a discarded enhancement?
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ejberkenpas, that is a direct contradiction to the piece of the REG I quoted.
However, you are correct in the fact that if a card is discarded that DOES NOT grant you initiative cannot be negated. I believe that in the original scenario the answer is no. If a 9/9 Warrior Class ec with Axe goes against Maharai (6/2) and discards Axe then Maharai could play an Interrupt the Battle card to stop Axe.
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No, the enhancement is discarded...and those cards cannot be negated. I am 99% positive they cannot be negated. By the time you get initiative to play a card Uzzah is gone, the EC Death of Unrighteous was played on is gone. Therefore there is nothing in play to be negated anymore. This is what I was told by my Dad when I asked him when it came up in a game once.
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You have to gain initiative to be able to negate it, BUT if you do get initiative (through cards like Angel's Sword) you CAN negate/interrupt it.
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No, the enhancement is discarded...and those cards cannot be negated. I am 99% positive they cannot be negated. By the time you get initiative to play a card Uzzah is gone, the EC Death of Unrighteous was played on is gone. Therefore there is nothing in play to be negated anymore. This is what I was told by my Dad when I asked him when it came up in a game once.
I'm pretty sure if the card says "negate last enhancement", then you can negate an enhancement that's currently out-of-play (i.e. in the discard pile), because that was the last enhancement played.
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the EC Death of Unrighteous was played on is gone
Unless you CTB'd your judas, so it was protected from your enhancements, then banded Messenger of Stan to him, and then played DoU. ::)
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From the REG Instant Abilities > Interrupt or Negate Last
Placing a card in the discard pile removes it from play, but does not remove the ability to negate it by (1) interrupting the battle or (2) interrupting the last enhancement played in battle. However, a "negate last enhancement" negates the last enhancement regardless of its current state (in play, discard pile, converted to a character, etc.).
The reason you can't negate Uzzah or cards like Death of Unrighteous is that the battle is usually over before you get initiative to negate anyway, but cards in the discard pile can be negated
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the EC Death of Unrighteous was played on is gone
Unless you CTB'd your judas, so it was protected from your enhancements, then banded Messenger of Stan to him, and then played DoU. ::)
Messenger of Stan?
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But the fact is you don't get initiative. Death of Unrighteous discards your own EC's. They are gone, battle ends. When does the hero ever get initiative?
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Like I said, through cards like Angel's Sword that give you initiative.
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(A) Stan is a common abbreviation around here.
(B) I said if you had CTB'd with Judas Iscariot, making him protected from your OWN discard abilities. That has been ruled legal to do.
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Like I said, through cards like Angel's Sword that give you initiative.
Ok that is one example...but that isn't really part of this. We are talking about can you play for instance Ehud's Dagger to negate Death of Unrighteous. And I say that no you cannot...the EC and enhancements (and lost souls) are all gone and you never got initiative to play a card.
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Like I said, through cards like Angel's Sword that give you initiative.
That is an interesting point. Here's the scenario:
WC Pale Green EC w/ 2K Horses blocks a Silver Hero with Angel's Sword. EC plays Death of Unrighteous off of 2K Horses and shuffles LS/discards EC. Would Angel's Sword give the Hero initiative to play Flaming Sword (WA version) which says "the effect of the last enhancement played is interrupted and prevented." ?
Typically tho, ejb is correct that you never get initiative to interrupt or negate.
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I would say no because there is no longer a battle going on. A battle involved two or more characters fighting each other. the WC character is discarded and gone. The battle ends because the Hero is the only on in battle.
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I would say no because there is no longer a battle going on. A battle involved two or more characters fighting each other. the WC character is discarded and gone. The battle ends because the Hero is the only on in battle.
Wrong. You can still play CM, you can still use Gates to add a character into battle, you can still use Madness, or Unknown Nation...
Battle isnt over till both players say it is.
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However I can play an enhancement on ET when there is no Evil character blocking me, or an enhancement on my green brigade prophet with Hidden Treasures up, I see no reason why it wouldn't be the same if it was after the evil character died with something like Angel's Sword or Helmet of Brass
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Ok but battle over or not the Hero never gets initiative to play a card. The EC is dead, gone, asta la vista baby! 8)
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SA's can break the usual rules and allow people to play cards in battle even when one side has "lost."
Once the SA's are done, and both players cannot do anything else, battle ends.
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I would say no because there is no longer a battle going on. A battle involved two or more characters fighting each other. the WC character is discarded and gone. The battle ends because the Hero is the only on in battle.
Wrong. You can still play CM, you can still use Gates to add a character into battle, you can still use Madness, or Unknown Nation...
Battle isnt over till both players say it is.
However I can play an enhancement on ET when there is no Evil character blocking me, or an enhancement on my green brigade prophet with Hidden Treasures up, I see no reason why it wouldn't be the same if it was after the evil character died with something like Angel's Sword or Helmet of Brass
i was wrong about that...you guys are right. But that doesn't ruin my argument ;)
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Ok but battle over or not the Hero never gets initiative to play a card. The EC is dead, gone, asta la vista baby! 8)
Like we said, you only get the chance if an SA GIVES you initiative.
Also, Guardian, I would say that yes, you could play Flaming sword to negate DoU and make your opponent cry.
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Another situation. I am blocked with a phillistine. I play a banding card to band in a Sibbechi (discard a phillistine) who has a converted 2kh on him.
I kill the phillistine then play next enhancement.
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Well the reason I am arguing this is because this is what I was told by my dad how these cards are played. Your arguments seems pretty reasonable and I am following what you are saying and am swayed a tincy bit but I still don't see how a card in the discard pile AKA out of play can be negated,,,especially because the Hero never gets initiative to play a card.
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especially because the Hero never gets initiative to play a card.
All of our examples have shown how you CAN get initiative.
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the only example I saw that was legitimate was Angels Sword.
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the only example I saw that was legitimate was Angels Sword.
Basically, any card that grants you first or next initiative (such as Angel's Sword) can be used to negate that card, as long as it says "negate last". A converted Two-Thousand Horses was also given as an example.
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He has been giving examples of how you can play cards when there are no EC's in battle. I am looking for examples of how to negate a DoU that is in the discard pile.
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Those are the same thing. I use my ability to play next after your EC is dead, and play a negate last.
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You could potentially negate a discarded card through Brass Helmet and The Throne of David, too
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Well I am off to bed...not running away from this discussion because this is a good one! I see where you guys are coming from and I will look into this a little bit and get back here. You may very well be right and I am wrong, but I am deathly tired. :P
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Could you potentially use Gamaliel?
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Red • Ability: 2 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt and prevent one enhancement used by an evil Pharisee or Sadducee. • Play As: Interrupt and prevent one enhancement used by an Evil Pharisee or Sadducee this battle.
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I don't think so.