Author Topic: In Game: Two Questions (Read 4523 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #25 on:** September 11, 2010, 11:47:03 AM »

Hmm, thats an interesting point.

Now, how about Ambush the City and Grapes? There's definitely still a rescuer there. I know I asked this before, but I don't think it was fully answered.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #26 on:** September 11, 2010, 12:12:32 PM »

Ambush the City (Ki)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If making a rescue attempt, set all cards in battle aside (regardless of immunity). Holder may begin a new rescue attempt against same player. Once new rescue attempt is completed, the original battle resumes as a battle challenge. Cannot be negated.

The Long Day (Ki)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 2 / 1 • Class: None • Special Ability: If holder's rescue attempt this turn fails, holder may make an additional rescue attempt this turn.

Grapes of Wrath (TP)
Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle.

why does TLD create a new phase and AtC doesnt?

Gabe · « **Reply #27 on:** September 11, 2010, 01:26:31 PM »

ATC resumes the original battle. You can't begin a new phase and then go back to the previous phase.

But I think I get your point. I don't think there should ever be more than one battle phase in a single turn. One phase and multiple battles seems perfectly reasonable.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #28 on:** September 11, 2010, 01:34:43 PM »

so u think the long day should only be one phase?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #29 on:** September 11, 2010, 01:38:37 PM »

Yep, and I agree.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #30 on:** September 12, 2010, 01:52:25 PM »

all in favor? AYE!

all opposed?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #31 on:** September 12, 2010, 09:51:09 PM »

I am inclined to agree to having a maximum of one battle phase per turn that may include multiple battles, as that seems the most intuitive. But since the current precedent in the REG is to have multiple battle phases, it will probably require a thorough examination of all of the implications of such a change before the change can be made.

SirNobody · « **Reply #32 on:** September 13, 2010, 01:40:17 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: RTSmaniac on September 11, 2010, 12:12:32 PM

why does TLD create a new phase and AtC doesnt?

Ambush the City does create a new phase. Which results in two nested battle phases that are going on at the same time. This is where we get the status quo ruling that ongoing abilities in the original battle can affect the second battle but ongoing abilities from the second battle don't affect the first.

I don't like the idea of nested phases, which is the basis of my preference for all battles happening during the same battle phase.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #33 on:** September 13, 2010, 07:59:59 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 12, 2010, 09:51:09 PM

I am inclined to agree to having a maximum of one battle phase per turn that may include multiple battles, as that seems the most intuitive. But since the current precedent in the REG is to have multiple battle phases, it will probably require a thorough examination of all of the implications of such a change before the change can be made.

The current REG is wrong a lot, and if sufficient current reason can be given, parts of it can be disregarded. Based on this thread (where three elders say it should be same phase with no dissenters) and the thread where the initial "ruling" came from (where one elder said same phase and another elder said different phases), I'd say not only should it be the same phase, but it actually is the same phase currently.

SirNobody · « **Reply #34 on:** September 13, 2010, 08:55:44 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 13, 2010, 07:59:59 PM

Based on this thread (where three elders say it should be same phase with no dissenters) and the thread where the initial "ruling" came from (where one elder said same phase and another elder said different phases), I'd say not only should it be the same phase, but it actually is the same phase currently.

Players that are elders are still allowed to express their own opinions. The three of us saying what we think it SHOULD be doesn't affect the current ruling at all.

The REG says it's separate battle phases. I said it's separate battle phases. Gabe said it's separate battle phases. We found a quote where Bryon says it's separate battle phases. And I know from personal conversations with Berkenpas that he think's it's separate battle phases. I'm slightly baffled that you're drawing the conclusion that it's the same battle phase out of all of that.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Gabe · « **Reply #35 on:** September 13, 2010, 09:27:57 PM »

I agree with SirNobody. The current rule is clear, there are multiple battle phases. I'm not fond of this rule and would like to see it changed but I still adhere by it until that happens.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #36 on:** September 13, 2010, 10:13:21 PM »

Ok, well if everyone's agreeing that it should be separate battles in the same phase, why hasn't it been changed? This is one thing I'll probably never understand about the PTB in Redemption is why it takes forever to change stuff that obviously needs to get changed.

SirNobody · « **Reply #37 on:** September 14, 2010, 01:38:15 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 13, 2010, 10:13:21 PM

Ok, well if everyone's agreeing that it should be separate battles in the same phase, why hasn't it been changed? This is one thing I'll probably never understand about the PTB in Redemption is why it takes forever to change stuff that obviously needs to get changed.

Everyone doesn't agree that it should be separate battles in the same phase. That's what the people posting in this thread generally think, but it's not what the PTB as a whole think.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #38 on:** September 14, 2010, 05:13:59 PM »

Is this being discussed? Is this being ignored for the time being? Would it kill the PTB to at least give us indication of what is and isn't being discussed?

SirNobody · « **Reply #39 on:** September 15, 2010, 11:48:59 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 14, 2010, 05:13:59 PM

Is this being discussed? Is this being ignored for the time being? Would it kill the PTB to at least give us indication of what is and isn't being discussed?

No it's not being discussed. It was discussed a year ago (roughly) and the PTB decided by split decision that they would be separate phases. I'm not aware of any new cards, ideas, or rules in the last year that would create any new argument for changing the rule.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #40 on:** September 15, 2010, 01:30:02 PM »

Well that's unfortunate, but I'm glad we agree on something for once.

Red · « **Reply #41 on:** September 16, 2010, 09:27:23 AM »

Time to say my piece(Late to the party I know) The cards that make a new battle phase(Grapes ATC and long day) don't say make a new battle phase they say new Battle so why do we do something the card doesn't say?

browarod · « **Reply #42 on:** September 16, 2010, 10:54:01 AM »

Quote from: Red on September 16, 2010, 09:27:23 AM

Time to say my piece(Late to the party I know) The cards that make a new battle phase(Grapes ATC and long day) don't say make a new battle phase they say new Battle so why do we do something the card doesn't say?

I think it's because, currently, the battle phase can only contain one battle by game rule. So, when you are given another battle by a card ability, it has to make another phase given the rules.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #43 on:** September 16, 2010, 01:56:14 PM »

Quote from: browarod on September 16, 2010, 10:54:01 AM

Quote from: Red on September 16, 2010, 09:27:23 AM
Time to say my piece(Late to the party I know) The cards that make a new battle phase(Grapes ATC and long day) don't say make a new battle phase they say new Battle so why do we do something the card doesn't say?
I think it's because, currently, the battle phase can only contain one battle by game rule. So, when you are given another battle by a card ability, it has to make another phase given the rules.

That's not tenable. This is just a bad fiat ruling. They had two, equally viable options and they picked the wrong one (like making Lost Souls an identifier instead of CBN).

browarod · « **Reply #44 on:** September 16, 2010, 02:20:08 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 16, 2010, 01:56:14 PM

Quote from: browarod on September 16, 2010, 10:54:01 AM
Quote from: Red on September 16, 2010, 09:27:23 AM
Time to say my piece(Late to the party I know) The cards that make a new battle phase(Grapes ATC and long day) don't say make a new battle phase they say new Battle so why do we do something the card doesn't say?
I think it's because, currently, the battle phase can only contain one battle by game rule. So, when you are given another battle by a card ability, it has to make another phase given the rules.
That's not tenable. This is just a bad fiat ruling. They had two, equally viable options and they picked the wrong one (like making Lost Souls an identifier instead of CBN).

Except that "wrong" is relative in this situation. They obviously thought the decision they made was the right or best one. Sure there's new evidence now, but that doesn't and can't affect their making of the decision back when they made it.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #45 on:** September 16, 2010, 02:23:26 PM »

Accidentally making the wrong decision is still making the wrong decision. It seems like the PTB have a bent for choosing the complicated option (multiple phases) over the simple option (multiple battles, same phases).

browarod · « **Reply #46 on:** September 16, 2010, 02:27:36 PM »

All I'm trying to say is that it wasn't the wrong decision back then. It may be now (in your opinion), but that doesn't mean it was when it was decided. I don't want to argue this anymore, though, as it's somewhat off-topic.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #47 on:** September 16, 2010, 02:33:42 PM »

Cool, that means I'll get the last word

Grapes came out last set. Not a whole lot is different now, so if it's wrong now, it was wrong then. Pretty much the big shift is that FbtN is a lot weaker now due to all the CBP.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #48 on:** September 16, 2010, 11:54:07 PM »

ok so lemme ask again cuz im confused.

i attack with TSA and u block play grapes and i attack with random hero...is the battle FBTN's or not?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #49 on:** September 17, 2010, 01:29:57 AM »

No, unfortunately.

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Author Topic: In Game: Two Questions (Read 4523 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod

browarod

browarod