Author Topic: Gates of Jerusalem  (Read 1077 times)

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Gates of Jerusalem
« on: October 24, 2014, 01:45:18 AM »
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Gates of Jerusalem says:

Protect evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory from opponent's cards. If one blocks, its special ability cannot be negated and you may draw a card.

Does that mean if I band an evil King or Queen of Judah into battle I also get to draw a card? Or potentially multiple cards if I band multiple into battle?
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Offline Minion of Jesus

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 11:53:37 AM »
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No, because a "block" happens when the EC first enters battle.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 12:12:04 PM »
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Actually I should have just read the REG where it clearly says it can trigger multiple times:

Block
Blocking is the attempt to prevent a rescue. Only Evil Characters may block. Whenever an Evil Character enters the Field of Battle against a Hero (regardless of what point the battle is), that is considered a block.

I was also wondering if the King of Queen of Judah needs to come from territory to gain the benefits of Gates of Jerusalem or do I read the ability as:

Protect evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory from opponent's cards. If an evil King or Queen of Judah blocks, its special ability cannot be negated and you may draw a card.

or

Protect evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory from opponent's cards. If an evil King or Queen of Judah in your territory blocks, its special ability cannot be negated and you may draw a card.

I'm guessing it's the first one, but I'm never quite sure.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 12:29:45 PM »
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The answer is that you draw for each that blocks (is brought into battle to oppose a hero).  The phrasing shows that they are both CBN (which cannot apply if they are just in territory) and that they allow you to D1 when they block.

Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 12:52:16 PM »
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The answer is that you draw for each that blocks (is brought into battle to oppose a hero).  The phrasing shows that they are both CBN (which cannot apply if they are just in territory) and that they allow you to D1 when they block.

That's exactly what I thought, but the ability had a little strange wording and I wanted to double check. Thanks.
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2014, 04:29:40 PM »
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Wait, aren't you asking whether or not you gain the benefits if you block with an evil king or queen of Judah from somewhere besides your territory, such as your hand? If so, I believe the answer to that is no and you should be reading it as the second ability you posted. I could be wrong but that's the way I've always played and understood it.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 04:36:14 PM »
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Wait, aren't you asking whether or not you gain the benefits if you block with an evil king or queen of Judah from somewhere besides your territory, such as your hand?

That's what I was asking.
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Offline JDS

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2020, 07:35:18 PM »
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So drawing multiple cards with Gates of Jerusalem promo is possible by banding Judeans during the same battle?

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2020, 08:35:07 PM »
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This thread is 6 years old. At the time, you did get multiple draws if you banded kings of Judah together.

We recently (last couple of years) made a change that meant triggers off a "block" could only trigger once, so you'd only get a single draw 1 with a band of kings of Judah.

Offline JDS

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2020, 06:13:37 AM »
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Would only the first one entering battle gain cannot-be-negated status as well?

Also, thanks again, you've been extremely helpful.

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2020, 03:06:32 PM »
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All of the blocking kings would be CBN, actually. Triggered effects (draw, play, etc.) have to wait until everything is complete to go off, and our rule is that for block (and attack/begins a battle) you can't re-trigger them until they do go off. Triggered modifiers (CBN, CBI , etc.) insert themselves in the middle (otherwise they don't work), so they can be re-triggered since they're not waiting to finish.

Offline JDS

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2020, 04:45:13 PM »
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Okay, thanks. Then for a fortress ability like City of Refuge, if several O.T. humans are discarded simultaneously by the same ability like Wrath of Satan, can I place them all in there?


Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2020, 05:04:22 PM »
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No, but only because City of Refuge says once per turn. Each time you use it saves one Hero. Something like the promo Noah's Ark that isn't limited to once per turn can functionally save multiple characters at once, although they technically happen once at a time.


Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2020, 08:44:54 PM »
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Back to the Gates of Jerusalem question, I know it has been ruled that way but it still doesn't make sense to me.

 
Quote
Protect evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory from opponent's cards. If one blocks, its special ability cannot be negated and you may draw a card.

Quote
A block is the attempt to stop a rescue attempt or battle challenge. Only Evil Characters may
block.
An Evil Character blocks if ALL of the following are true:
• The character enters battle under the control of the defending player
• The battle was begun by a Hero
When an Evil Character blocks, it blocks the Heroes that are currently in battle.

Quote
I was also wondering if the King of Queen of Judah needs to come from territory to gain the benefits of Gates of Jerusalem or do I read the ability as:

Protect evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory from opponent's cards. If an evil King or Queen of Judah blocks, its special ability cannot be negated and you may draw a card.

or

Protect evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory from opponent's cards. If an evil King or Queen of Judah in your territory blocks, its special ability cannot be negated and you may draw a card.

"If ONE blocks," doesn't grammatically make sense to refer to "an evil King or Queen of Judah in your territory".  By definition, if it blocks the character is in battle not territory.  By the time it is true to meet the conditions of
Quote
An Evil Character blocks if ALL of the following are true
then it cannot be "an evil King or Queen of Judah in your territory".  Characters in territory are never characters that block.  Blocking characters can come from territory but that is different.

Another way of saying this is you won't check to see if the condition for Gates of Jerusalem is met until a character blocks.  At the point a character does block you then check to see "if one blocks" is true.  What is the definition of "one" here?  Is the character an "evil King or Queen of Judah"?  Easy.  Or is the character in battle "an evil.... in territory"?  Of course no and it never will be.  If you mean the character in battle is "an evil King or Queen of Judah in battle that meets definition of block and also previously was an evil King or Queen of Judah in your territory" then I guess it would work but that seems like a stretch and more complicated. 

It seems far simpler and more intuitive to say that "if one blocks" refers to an evil king or queen of Judah and the part "in your territory" refers to the limits of protection for that same group. 

Are there any other cards with similar wording or other precedent?


Offline thecoolguy

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2020, 01:28:51 PM »
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Are all evil Kong’s of Judah that block cbn once they go into battle with gates?
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Offline JDS

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2020, 05:33:39 PM »
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Yes according to the earlier response.

Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2020, 11:41:33 PM »
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Quote
Are all evil Kong’s of Judah that block cbn once they go into battle with gates?

but only if they were in your territory and then block (if I understand the current ruling). 

What if they were in your territory and then an opponent banded to them for blocking?  With a banding card that gets past the protection if there is one?

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Gates of Jerusalem
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2020, 01:00:12 PM »
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Quote
Are all evil Kong’s of Judah that block cbn once they go into battle with gates?

but only if they were in your territory and then block (if I understand the current ruling). 

What if they were in your territory and then an opponent banded to them for blocking?  With a banding card that gets past the protection if there is one?
Based on the wording, I suppose if you played a banding enhancement with the Wicked LS out you could band to them, they would be CBN, and your opponent would get to draw a card.
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