Author Topic: Capture question (Read 5044 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **on:** April 17, 2012, 07:57:45 PM »

Matt and I are having a discussion on Capture.

He is trying to find where in the rulebook it says a captured character is controlled by the player who's territory it is placed in. I went to look in the REG, and I honestly found nothing.

I'm 99% sure that captured characters count for the duplicate unique character rule for whoever is holding them, but I'd like some rulebook verification.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:20:44 PM »

If a character is in your territory, you control that character. I can't find anything in the REG, but that is the rule.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:47:27 PM »

except that control = own and have in territory cause if i controlled a captured character in the same was as exchange thru sws it would be broken thats why i need to see the rulebook. cause i agree they become ls in lob but i don't think there souls while in rc so i say that uniqueness applies to the owner of the card why should capturing limit me it should punish my opponet.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:54:20 PM »

Control and ownership are not the same thing. Control is when you are using a character (whether it be from a SWS transfer, capturing a character, using a CTB ability, etc). Ownership is when that character was in your deck when the game started. Terms like "your" imply both ownership and control, but the terms are still separate, with completely separate meanings. I'm not sure what the rest of your argument is though. Can you please try to rephrase it?

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2012, 09:03:46 PM »

my argument is that exchange abilitys specificallyt say control changes. all im asking for is written proof that capture does the same and i can't find it. i could care less one way or the other but i think we need to be clear cause of unique rules. aka i capture your samuel. why is it fair you can replay another copy and i can't play mine. also what happens if you play another copy and the original is released who chooses which samuel dies since its not coming in via exchange like auto etc.

megamanlan · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2012, 09:20:06 PM »

That's the current rule. So even if you have a Captured Daniel Hero, Nebu can't work. Also, u can't have a Unique character that is the same as a Captured Character in your territory.

You control Captured heroes in your territory. I'm not sure what happens if a Captured Hero is released and there is another copy in the owners territory...

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2012, 10:05:59 PM »

so then can i even capture someone if i already have them. can we get some definition on this what is aloud when please.

Redoubter · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2012, 10:10:39 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on April 17, 2012, 10:05:59 PM

so then can i even capture someone if i already have them. can we get some definition on this what is aloud when please.

Except that the rule against multiple characters is based on them being in your territory or set-aside, or added to battle if one is already there (or in your territory or set-aside). The rules are not based at all on ownership, but they are specific based on where the cards are.

So no, no definition of ownership would allow you to capture a character already in your territory or set-aside.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2012, 10:14:37 PM »

ok so in other words under current rules someone who wants to play capture is punished if they have the same unique they can't capture and if they capture they can't play a copy for themselves. so essentially under current rules capture is the hardest to use ability in the game bravo. way to make a sa that is so stupid.

Redoubter · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2012, 10:16:45 PM »

Whoops, Ignore (hahaha) what I just said. I was on a different topic in my brain and it typed wrong.

Yes, you can (by current rules) capture that character. But it has nothing to do with ownership. You just have to discard one as normal.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 17, 2012, 10:18:24 PM »

ok thats what i thought i was about to go bat crazy lol.

Redoubter · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2012, 10:19:52 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on April 17, 2012, 10:18:24 PM

ok thats what i thought i was about to go bat crazy lol.

Nope, no more crazy than we normally are at least around these parts

But again, it wouldn't have to do with ownership. Just control.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2012, 10:21:53 PM »

whatever long story short i just wanna see a clarification on capture that says it switches control in the same manner as exchange abilitys like sws. thats all im looking for cause without clarification uniques should be limited until you clear a captured copy then you can replace it.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2012, 11:09:00 PM »

also was just pointed out to me to the character gets placed in raiders camp and placed characters captured or not don't change control do they? really would love ELDERS to chime in here please.

Drrek · « **Reply #14 on:** April 17, 2012, 11:28:35 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 17, 2012, 09:20:06 PM

That's the current rule. So even if you have a Captured Daniel Hero, Nebu can't work.

False, a captured Daniel hero is not a Daniel hero, it is a captured hero, which is a different card type, thus it does not stop neb's ability

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #15 on:** April 17, 2012, 11:37:04 PM »

Quote from: Drrek on April 17, 2012, 11:28:35 PM

Quote from: megamanlan on April 17, 2012, 09:20:06 PM
That's the current rule. So even if you have a Captured Daniel Hero, Nebu can't work.

False, a captured Daniel hero is not a Daniel hero, it is a captured hero, which is a different card type, thus it does not stop neb's ability

This is correct.

Matt, you have at least three people, including two REPs, telling you that captured characters are under the control of the person who's Land of Bondage they're in. If none of the Elders opt to come in and confirm (or overturn) this, you have no choice but to take our word for it for the time being.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 17, 2012, 11:49:55 PM »

yeah whatever wasn't that huge i'll just let it drop i was simply trying to find a little more crowd control for t2

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 18, 2012, 01:15:05 AM »

actually if there in raiders camp there not in my lob but

megamanlan · « **Reply #18 on:** April 18, 2012, 02:45:41 AM »

It doesnt really matter. U still control them now. Control is anything in your territory, your side of battle or your Set-Aside area. I'd argue against that its no longer a Daniel Hero, it's a captured hero with a Daniel reference.

Redoubter · « **Reply #19 on:** April 18, 2012, 11:00:32 AM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 18, 2012, 02:45:41 AM

I'd argue against that its no longer a Daniel Hero, it's a captured hero with a Daniel reference.

You can argue it, but that is specifically how the rules are in the REG.

Quote

It ceases to be a character and becomes a captured character instead (that is, Heroes become captured Heroes and Evil Characters become captured Evil Characters).

It ceases to be a character. It changes type to a captured Hero/EC. They are very different, and thus what Drrek said is correct.

megamanlan · « **Reply #20 on:** April 18, 2012, 03:45:45 PM »

Actually, to hold its original name and to be a 'Captured Hero' it is still a Character. But it's still being treated as a LS too. It's why the Unique rule still happens.

Redoubter · « **Reply #21 on:** April 18, 2012, 04:52:34 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 18, 2012, 03:45:45 PM

Actually, to hold its original name and to be a 'Captured Hero' it is still a Character. But it's still being treated as a LS too. It's why the Unique rule still happens.

If you want to argue that you can have a captured character and that same character at the same time, you'll have to take it up with the Elders. That's how it's been ruled.

However, it is also ruled (per the REG and rulings) that Captured Characters are not the same thing as Heroes and EC. "Daniel Hero is in play" means that it cannot be a Captured Daniel Hero. They are not the same thing.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 18, 2012, 04:55:36 PM »

yeah what i guess im trying to say is it should be the person whose guy gets captured that can't replay them until they manage to "save them"

Redoubter · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2012, 04:56:57 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on April 18, 2012, 04:55:36 PM

yeah what i guess im trying to say is it should be the person whose guy gets captured that can't replay them until they manage to "save them"

While I understand that sentiment, the rule involves there being duplicates in your side of battle, territory, or set-aside. It is based on control, not ownership.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2012, 05:00:35 PM »

and i contest if exchange on cards like sws is gonna exist in the game then capture should work diffrently otherwise we have 2 abilitys that do the same thing.

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Author Topic: Capture question (Read 5044 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy