Cactus Game Design Message Boards

"Holder may not make a rescue attempt or be attacked. May be used twice"

That phrase only tells the number of times it can be used. You keep bringing up old wording in your questions about cards, which is good to clarify. Optional use abilities must say "may" before the ability you want to use.

"Old Wording"? Make me feel more out of the loop than i already do will ya ;-)

The cards have old wording, not you. 

So essentially you are saying, This effect HAS to take place for 2 turns once you activate it?

No. You can use it once, then deactivate it, then reactivate it on another turn.

Well okay then. So to clarify:

• I activate BS at the beginning of my turn
• I may only B/C this turn
• My opponents upcoming turn, he cannot enter battle at all.
• My next turn, BS is deactivated, and I can chose to either re-activate it, or leave it alone, allowing me to RA that turn.

Is that correct?

So let's throw out some more hypotheticals.  In Type 2, I have access to lost souls and activate Burial Shroud.  I declare that I am not choosing a lost soul and issue a battle challenge.

Yay or nay?

Quote from: Redemption Rulebook

Rescuer’s Choice
Before a player begins a rescue attempt, he must announce which Lost Soul he is trying to rescue. That is the only Lost Soul he is eligible to rescue. If that partic­ular Lost Soul is taken out of play prior to the end of the battle (by Burial, Son of God, or New Jerusalem), then the rescuer will not rescue a Lost Soul even if his forces win the battle.

NOTE: Type II Tournament Rules are always played under the Rescuer’s Choice rule.

This does not apply as Rescuer's Choice only applies to Rescue Attempts which BS restricts.

Battle Challenge

A battle challenge may be given when there is no Lost Soul available for a Hero to rescue. A Hero is placed onto the Field of Battle, and the Evil Character is invited to fight. The battle challenge does not have to be accepted.

This implies that you can only issue a Battle Challenge if no lost soul is available for a Hero to rescue.  If one IS available, you cannot issue a Battle Challenge. (See definition of Rescue Attempt).

In short, you cannot use Rescuer's Choice in T1 or T2 to turn a Rescue Attempt into a Battle Challenge while Burial Shroud is active because you are restricted from making a Rescue Attempt in the first place.

Quote from: Lawman on February 08, 2012, 09:55:26 PM

Quote from: STAMP on February 08, 2012, 10:43:07 AM

So let's throw out some more hypotheticals.  In Type 2, I have access to lost souls and activate Burial Shroud.  I declare that I am not choosing a lost soul and issue a battle challenge.

Yay or nay?

Quote from: Redemption Rulebook

Rescuer’s Choice
Before a player begins a rescue attempt, he must announce which Lost Soul he is trying to rescue. That is the only Lost Soul he is eligible to rescue. If that partic­ular Lost Soul is taken out of play prior to the end of the battle (by Burial, Son of God, or New Jerusalem), then the rescuer will not rescue a Lost Soul even if his forces win the battle.

NOTE: Type II Tournament Rules are always played under the Rescuer’s Choice rule.

This does not apply as Rescuer's Choice only applies to Rescue Attempts which BS restricts.

Quote

Battle Challenge

A battle challenge may be given when there is no Lost Soul available for a Hero to rescue. A Hero is placed onto the Field of Battle, and the Evil Character is invited to fight. The battle challenge does not have to be accepted.

This implies that you can only issue a Battle Challenge if no lost soul is available for a Hero to rescue.  If one IS available, you cannot issue a Battle Challenge. (See definition of Rescue Attempt).

In short, you cannot use Rescuer's Choice in T1 or T2 to turn a Rescue Attempt into a Battle Challenge while Burial Shroud is active because you are restricted from making a Rescue Attempt in the first place.

In Type 2, by not choosing a lost soul to rescue, it becomes a battle challenge because I do not have access to a lost soul.  Simple as that.

I understand and it makes sense, but if you read the rules as written vs. Burial Shroud's special ability, you can't do that.  In order to choose/not choose a lost soul it would have to begin as a rescue attempt because a lost soul is available; which BS restricts you from doing.  I agree with you that in T2 that would be an easy option, but the rules don't accurately support that game action.  You can only apply Rescuer's Choice to a Rescue Attempt and since BS requires that a battle begin as a battle challenge, you cannot fulfill the the requirements needed to do Rescuer's Choice.

In order to choose/not choose a lost soul it would have to begin as a rescue attempt because a lost soul is available; which BS restricts you from doing.

You have the cart before the horse.  You begin by choosing a lost soul you will attempt to rescue, which you may or may not initially have access to, followed by placing your hero in battle, complete all abilities, and then you find out if it really starts out as a battle challenge or rescue attempt.

Regardless of how it has been played, the rules do not make your suggestion valid the way they are worded.  My basis is that it does not say before making a rescue attempt or battle challenge.  It implies that after your choice, a rescue attempt follows.

FTFY

I haven't played T2 much, but for what my opinion is worth I agree with the people disagreeing with STAMP. I see nothing in the T2 rules that lets you just choose "nothing" if souls are in play when you declare your desire to begin a battle.

Eh, I understand R's Choice may be played that way and has been played that way for some time, but that doesn't mean it's supported by the rules...  Maybe it was a forgotten addition to the Regs?

Regardless, I don't mean to be so against you STAMP.  I will acknowledge that I could be wrong and that I'm looking way too far into this.  I guess I've made my opinion quite clear, so I will refrain from diverting the topic any longer.

I decided to take a break from this post for a while so I could focus on other Type II headaches...    still no results?

So the issues at hand (for any Elders, ehem ehem, who would like to weigh in)...
1) What happens to attacking hero(s) when a special ability causes a BC to become a RA? 'Repelled' out or 'No soul' at the end?
2) How does Burial Shroud affect the overall structure of the Rescuers Choice rule?

   Bumpity bump bump!   

The sad reality is Rescuer's Choice, as has been pointed out, has a lot of gray area.

Not to knock the Type II question, but in our soul-generation... uh... generation, there are countless ways that Burial Shroud can become confusing, even among normal decks (well, somewhat normal... can't be too normal with Shroud in them )

Shroud is up. Asahel/Warrior's Spear makes a BC. Spear activates and causes a Lost Soul to come into play. Now Asahel's CtB ability activates - does he get to activate it?

Under my proposal he would, and would engage in battle AS a battle challenge with the chosen EC. At Battle resolution, however, the player is restricted from rescue and would receive no Redeemed Soul. Under the "repel" understanding of Shroud we would have to explain why Asahel's CtB ability is restricted by a card that restricts from Rescue...

I couldn't help but imagine you standing behind a podium speaking to congress when I read this 

lol, my opponent has been accused of accepting bribes, and clubs baby seals. Can I count on your vote? 

Bonus example of "repel" problems.

Turtle Deck vs. Syrian Deck.
Turtle activates Shroud. Turtle makes a BC to get a hero back from Raiders Camp. Syrian blocks with Sabbath Breaker to draw 3 (hoping for a soul) and indeed draws one. The soul goes in play and Sabbath Breaker instantly wins the battle-challenge-gone-rescue because Shroud became a battle winner.