Author Topic: RTS Shuffling Problems (Read 5591 times)

Red · « **on:** February 18, 2011, 07:53:51 AM »

It's the best evening tool ever invented. Redemption isn't chess. Mayhem was needed my friends, it was needed.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:00:55 AM »

Redemption isn't Chess, but it shouldn't be Candy Land either.

Red · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:29:27 AM »

Mayhem doesn't make Redemption candyland. It adds skill AND luck.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:53:48 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on February 18, 2011, 02:36:45 AM

Confirm. I'm starting to believe Mayhem is even worse for the game than NJ, and if anyone knows my stance on NJ, that's saying something.

I'm starting to agree, and I didn't even used Mayhem for the first 6 months it was printed because I thought it was terrible.

The Guardian · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2011, 10:07:40 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 18, 2011, 09:53:48 AM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on February 18, 2011, 02:36:45 AM
Confirm. I'm starting to believe Mayhem is even worse for the game than NJ, and if anyone knows my stance on NJ, that's saying something.

I'm starting to agree, and I didn't even used Mayhem for the first 6 months it was printed because I thought it was terrible.

Same here, though it was even longer for me because I didn't play in the big tournaments the season TxP was released. I didn't start using Mayhem until this past RooT season. The stats are ridiculous when it comes to one player using an opening hand Mayhem.

Red · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2011, 02:00:06 PM »

But you forget that RTS's RNG is wack and pulls Mayhem more often than not on turn 1.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2011, 03:14:51 PM »

You have no proof of that.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2011, 03:45:42 PM »

Personally I don't trust RTS shuffling, I have gotten a lot of poor draws of it recently.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2011, 03:59:38 PM »

Personally, I don't trust real life shuffling. I don't get a first turn Guardian-Mayhem-whatever my favorite hero is in that deck 100% of the time.

The Guardian · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2011, 03:24:39 AM »

IMO, Redemption is definitely better when there is "biased" shuffling...i.e. making 7 card piles with 1 LS in each pile, stacking them all and then shuffling that.

Since RTS shuffling is truly random, you get more of the "weird" draws that you rarely see in live games.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2011, 09:48:56 AM »

ok then so how many times have you shuffled 3 cards into your deck and drew the same 3 cards. ask prof underwood.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2011, 01:31:07 PM »

I had a player that kept happening to, and then we started cutting decks. And it kept happening. The best moment was when he Mayhemed in order to get some defense, and ended up with 5/6ths of his original hand. (and the deck was cut!)

The Guardian · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2011, 01:39:27 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on February 19, 2011, 09:48:56 AM

ok then so how many times have you shuffled 3 cards into your deck and drew the same 3 cards. ask prof underwood.

That's because "shuffling" a card into deck on RTS doesn't actually shuffle the deck...it just puts the card in a random spot, and I agree it seems to favor putting those cards closer to the top.

That's why you should always shuffle your deck whenever a card is sent back to deck on RTS.

Red · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2011, 05:05:46 PM »

I still think mayhem was a needed part of the game.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2011, 05:28:47 PM »

A card you can use at anytime with no cost is an unessary part of any game. Besides, Redemption has plenty of cards like that already.

Red · « **Reply #15 on:** February 19, 2011, 05:33:37 PM »

Redemption was designed so costs were not needed. Don't pull that horrid arguement out again.
It's also better than sitting behind a soul draught.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #16 on:** February 19, 2011, 06:03:50 PM »

It seems to be a better shuffle if you just shuffle the individual cards into the deck like normal and then NOT shuffle the entire deck. Try doing that sometime.

Townsend · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2011, 06:08:23 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on February 19, 2011, 06:03:50 PM

It seems to be a better shuffle if you just shuffle the individual cards into the deck like normal and then NOT shuffle the entire deck. Try doing that sometime.

When you do that the deck doesn't shuffle the cards. The cards are just placed in the deck randomly... Ex. I use brone laver put my demons under deck. Someone plays Mayhem I shuffle my hand like you said. I use Gates and guess what the demons are still on the bottom.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2011, 06:10:59 PM »

Yeah wasn't thinking about those issues, you're right. I wonder if a shuffle x3 rule should apply then? I'd say that would be better than just the one time.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2011, 06:43:00 PM »

Shuffling x 3 is just as random as shuffling x 1.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2011, 06:52:15 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on February 19, 2011, 06:43:00 PM

Shuffling x 3 is just as random as shuffling x 1.

It seems the first draw has a great chance of getting back the cards just shuffled in, so maybe the shuffle x3 messes up that RTS problem?

p.s. I haven't done any tests with this so it might just be a waste of time. It just seems to me when you shuffle only once, you usually get some of the cards you just shuffled in(and i'm talking about even just if one or two total cards were shuffled in).

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2011, 07:59:22 PM »

what happened to the

thingy?

Red · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2011, 09:29:19 PM »

Not on the ROOT or Prayer boards.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2011, 10:08:44 PM »

I've changed my mind. I just had a t2 game where my opponent got a first turn Mayhem. RTS is obviously rigged, that's like flipping a coin and getting heads 3.5 times in a row >:c >:c

Red · « **Reply #24 on:** February 19, 2011, 10:19:49 PM »

triple reset fixes that problem.

The Guardian · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:20:17 AM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on February 19, 2011, 10:08:44 PM

I've changed my mind. I just had a t2 game where my opponent got a first turn Mayhem. RTS is obviously rigged, that's like flipping a coin and getting heads 3.5 times in a row >:c >:c

Kind of like our T2 game earlier where YOU got the first turn Mayhem?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:15:54 AM »

Not drawing a soul for 9 turns is more unlikely than a first turn Mayhem I think. >:c

The Guardian · « **Reply #27 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:40:41 AM »

8 turns...maybe...you were drawing a lot faster than I was.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #28 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:02:52 PM »

Quote from: Red on February 19, 2011, 10:19:49 PM

triple reset fixes that problem.

Yeah, that seems like something that needs to be used. And when each player shuffles, they should shuffle x3 to get a better shuffle imo.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #29 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:30:34 PM »

Quote from: Red on February 19, 2011, 10:19:49 PM

triple reset fixes that problem.

No it doesn't?

Gabe · « **Reply #30 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:04:05 PM »

Quote from: Red on February 19, 2011, 10:19:49 PM

triple reset fixes that problem

Triple reset is a myth. A superstition. It doesn't change anything except the way you feel because it's all in your head.

Master KChief · « **Reply #31 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:11:14 PM »

Quote from: Red on February 19, 2011, 05:33:37 PM

Redemption was designed so costs were not needed.

highly debatable.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #32 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:15:33 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on February 20, 2011, 04:04:05 PM

Quote from: Red on February 19, 2011, 10:19:49 PM
triple reset fixes that problem
Triple reset is a myth. A superstition. It doesn't change anything except the way you feel because it's all in your head.

My head sure feels good with triple reset then

I almost always triple reset with RTS, and I rarely have seen Mayhem on the 1st draw. Sometimes, sure, but only as often as I would expect it to happen.

Gabe · « **Reply #33 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:17:48 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on February 20, 2011, 05:15:33 PM

I almost always triple reset with RTS, and I rarely have seen Mayhem on the 1st draw. Sometimes, sure, but only as often as I would expect it to happen.

I never triple reset and I get the same results.

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Author Topic: RTS Shuffling Problems (Read 5591 times)

TheHobbit13

Rawrlolsauce!

TheHobbit13

Rawrlolsauce!

Rawrlolsauce!

Rawrlolsauce!