Author Topic: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals  (Read 1641 times)

Offline The Guardian

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For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« on: July 26, 2018, 02:09:34 PM »
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So for the 8* of us who will be playing T2 MP at Nationals, I wanted to brainstorm some ideas for improving the gameplay from a time perspective.

Last year, I was in at least two games where "last round" was called after it had already begun which meant that at least one player had already taken (or was taking) his final turn, but did not have that knowledge going into the turn (thereby putting him at a disadvantage). This is by no means a shot at those who judged last year--T2 MP is a very difficult category for timing because some turns/rounds can be done really quick and some turns/rounds can take forever. John and Marcus did a really good job, but I think with more guidelines in place, we could improve the category in general.

What might be some ideas for improvement? Here's a couple off the top of my head.

*Each T2 MP table has it's own timer that sits at the table--the time starts when the first player actually begins his first turn (because of the nature of the category, resolving Lost Souls drawn in the opening hands can sometimes take quite a long time). With the expectation that there's unlikely to be more than 3 tables, I think it's viable.

*When the 30 minutes remaining mark passes, a judge will begin evaluating before each new round begins. Players will need to inform the judge each time a round completes.

*If there are 3 or fewer tables (12 or fewer players), only 3 rounds will be played instead of the traditional 4, but each game must go at least 7 rounds (unless someone wins before that obviously). Games can go beyond 7 rounds if they are still within the time limit.


Constructive feedback welcome even from those who aren't planning to play T2 MP or won't be at Nationals.  8)







*I have no idea how many there will be, I'm just hoping it's at least 8 and would be thrilled if we got to 12.  8)
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Offline The Schaefer

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 06:19:35 PM »
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T2 time controls are wonky period. If you just look at T22P time outs are a regular occurence and MP is no different if not worse especially with searching being incredibly prevalent in games. It might not be popular but we may have to evaluate the time limits of T2 as a whole in order to solve/mitigate the time issues as a whole but thats not exactly something that could be implemented here but definitely has merit of discussion since tournament results can be influenced by time issues. Thats just my opinion though and may not be popular at all.

In regards to T2MP time controls i dont think a timer at the table is much different than having a viewable timer on a screen its just distracting to look at time and often can throw a player off their game if they are the anxious type. I kind of like the idea of a minimum number of rounds and the judges evaulating rounds beginning thing. As long as its made apparent that a round is the last one that should be fair to all.

On the other hand anyone playing T2 Multi has to be a glutton for punishment in terms of playing Redemption so we could just force all games to conclusion and play forever. Thats what we do in our free time anyways right?  ;D

Offline The Guardian

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 06:29:58 PM »
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On the other hand anyone playing T2 Multi has to be a glutton for punishment in terms of playing Redemption so we could just force all games to conclusion and play forever. Thats what we do in our free time anyways right?  ;D

That thought did cross my mind as well...3 rounds...no time limits...but one step at a time.  :o
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 06:32:19 PM »
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The timer at each table would be because the games would start at slightly different times.

If table 1 has 8 Lost Souls that involve searching, revealing, etc to resolve after the opening draw, they will probably use up 5-6 minutes. If table 2 has 2 Lost Souls with no abilities that do anything, they won't use any time.

My suggestion was that the timer for each table doesn't start until the player going first actually starts the first turn.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 07:46:58 PM »
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This can be relevant for teams as well. ;)

Offline Kor

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 10:21:50 PM »
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Has there been an update on round times recently?  Just seems like in the last few sets there has been a large increase in the amount of repeatable searching, revealing and exchanging.  All of these effects are fun but have definitely increased the time it takes to finish an average game.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2018, 10:53:21 PM »
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Has there been an update on round times recently?  Just seems like in the last few sets there has been a large increase in the amount of repeatable searching, revealing and exchanging.  All of these effects are fun but have definitely increased the time it takes to finish an average game.

That's a great point--I don't think round times have changed since I started playing tournaments back in 2003-04.
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2018, 11:17:42 AM »
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Has there been an update on round times recently?  Just seems like in the last few sets there has been a large increase in the amount of repeatable searching, revealing and exchanging.  All of these effects are fun but have definitely increased the time it takes to finish an average game.

That's a great point--I don't think round times have changed since I started playing tournaments back in 2003-04.

I can't say for anything before about 2008, but they HAVE been the same since then.

I think having a timer is a good thing, and tries to keep people moving, but maybe we need to do a minimum number of rounds and IF time allows continue to further rounds as suggested.  I don't want to say people do it COMPLETELY intentionally, but with all of the searching and triggers or things, someone in the lead can make sure to trigger as many things as possible to eat all the time so that if nothing else they time out win.  This can honestly be done in every category if someone is intentionally trying to do it.  So a minimum number of rounds won't let anyone just "sit" on their lead, because they know there is plenty of game still to be played.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 11:20:45 AM by Crashfach2002 »

TheHobbit13

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2018, 12:30:28 PM »
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I would suggest playing until zero seconds before last round is called. Seems to be the most objective way to call last round. Then to compensate put a reasonable time limit on the last round, because it's ridiculous when time is called in your game and you finish in 5 minutes while another table takes like 15 on their last round. But I'm not going to nationals so good luck haHAA o7

Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: For those playing T2 MP at Nationals
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 10:48:06 AM »
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I mostly second Nathan's opinion. When time ends you call last round and regardless of who's turn it is, one more round is played. I don't think that's too unfair because I remind people of the clock and when it gets to under 30 mins I say something and most people should know 30 mins is close to a round in t2 multi. I like the idea of a clock on the table, but there is a massive clock up on the wall that players need to be checking. I like all the judges, but I don't want them evaluating each table and trying to decide if there should be another round or not, too much is left open for interpretation. I don't like the idea of a nationals champ coming out in three rounds, even if there's only a few players, but I guess I would not be opposed to this so long as there are 9 or less people.
I like the last round starts when time expires, but then that would make me suggest 3 rounds total then because we would definitely go over.
I also no time limit and you play seven rounds. Once seven rounds are over, that's it, game is up. That way no matter what, everyone knows when their last turn is.

 


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