Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption® Official Tournaments => Topic started by: SomeKittens on May 18, 2010, 09:15:34 PM
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On Saturday, May 22, millions of MTG players around the globe will gather to play. As Satan rallies his forces, I think we should rally ours. Get together and play, discuss the Bible, and use Redemption to witness to your friends on that day.
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Great fat chance for me to have a playgroup meeting.May be i'll use the handydandy telephone to call up someone.
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On Saturday, May 22, millions of MTG players around the globe will gather to play. As Satan rallies his forces, I think we should rally ours. Get together and play, discuss the Bible, and use Redemption to witness to your friends on that day.
Funnily enough my redemption got canceled on that day.
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Ouch. I'm going to try and work something, but I doubt it.
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Ouch. I'm going to try and work something, but I doubt it.
Me too. Playgroup's too sparse.
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What I'd like to do is go down to the shop where they're playing Magic with some Redemption players with evangelistic giftings.
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What I'd like to do is go down to the shop where they're playing Magic with some Redemption players with evangelistic giftings.
Can't do that here...no card shops. And btw that's a great way to get thrown out of there. Whatever you do don't go touting off doctrine and stuff like that great way to get thrown out.
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"Touting off doctrine" is no way to evangelize. Play Redemption, don't push it on anyone, and pray like crazy.
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"Touting off doctrine" is no way to evangelize. Play Redemption, don't push it on anyone, and pray like crazy.
sorry just my random warning. i do that on instict.
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What I'd like to do is go down to the shop where they're playing Magic with some Redemption players with evangelistic giftings.
Yeah, that's what we've been trying to do in South FL. There was 1 store that didn't allow us to play the game there, actually they didn't even want us to speak to the players or post anything, etc.
We've had success at 1 place which has let us post up posters and drop redemption bible tracts and such. But no so much witnessing & evangelizing there because a lot of them just make fun of the game. But don't lose hope brothers! Endure hardness like a good soldier!
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The guy at our shop was really encouraging anyone to play "whatever" until "whenever". I'll be holding him to that. He's also approved Redemption, but doesn't know it's Bible yet.
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The guy at our shop was really encouraging anyone to play "whatever" until "whenever". I'll be holding him to that. He's also approved Redemption, but doesn't know it's Bible yet.
Yeah, you should tell them that right away. When we tried out this different hobby shop we were asking if we could play redemption and post a poster up. He asked what was it while he was reading the poster. As my brother started explaining the guy most of read the rest of the poster and assumed then blurted out "what you want to clense my soul through this game? so we're all evil now because we don't play your game? look we have kids here of many different religions and backgrounds here and I don't want you trying to preach and clense their souls". Something along those lines. I remember he said it kind of loud and made a scene out of it because it got quiet in the back and they were looking at us.
So you may want to tell'em to save face and your witness. Because if they start to get into an arguement with you...it'll just ruin your witness to the rest of the people you're trying to evangelize.
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Note I haven't played it there yet. He'll be the first I explain it to, boy does he need Jesus. (I'll be keeping that last bit to myself)
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Mass states is that day so a big group will be gathering in the name of Christ!
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This thread makes me cry.
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MTG, or Redemption witnessing?
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You'll find a lot of us here are cool with MTG.
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As Satan rallies his forces,
... uhm I don't even no where to begin on this, (or if I should). But this is crazy. You talk about preaching the word yet you compare a MTG day to Satan rallying his troops...? Stop judging people. My best friend plays, plenty of people here play. It is a card game, nothing more. And yes, by comparing MTG players to Satan rallying his troops is indeed judging people.
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couldnt have said it better myself. i play mtg sparingly, and i am in no way one of 'satans forces'. sorry to say so, but this thread is proof of how ignorant some christians can be.
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I do believe somewhere today I read a topic about not posting about games that involve cursing, swearing, or magical themes as they will be deleted... :police:
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There are Magicians and Magical Charms in redemption.
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I do believe somewhere today I read a topic about not posting about games that involve cursing, swearing, or magical themes as they will be deleted..
Who cares, it's a fellow card game. No one is saying anything magical about it or anything.
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Follow the order of this and ye shall see: Cactus Game Design Message Boards » Open Forum » Off-Topic » Video & Computer Games » games deleted
The Admins made the decision, not me so don't give me heat. I'm just giving advanced warning.
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Thanks for the "warning". This is not a bad topic or anything.
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Thanks for the "warning". This is not a bad topic or anything.
From the topic I'm referencing, it sounds like the Admins don't want any type of promotion of those types of games. You can disagree with me all you want, but I didn't come up with the decision and I was just being courteous.
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There are Magicians and Magical Charms in redemption.
I didn't write the post and it wasn't my decision, but I agree with it.
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He called the players of the game, satan followers practically... that is in no way promotion.
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He called the players of the game, satan followers practically... that is in no way promotion.
But other forum members are defending MTG, which IS in a way promotion.
I personally don't think that all MTG players are Satan's forces. However, I would say that it would be best for Christians to not play that game, and that the Christians on this forum who do are making a poor decision in that regard. I know I won't win any popularity points with this post, but I really do believe that playing MTG will hurt your witness and is likely to be a stumbling block to others.
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- 9001 popularity points for suggesting that we be responsible christians.
That's over 9000 :)
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less than 0%!!!1!1!!!!1!111!!
but seriously, playing mtg is no different than playing lotr. many connatate 'magical' elements to both, yet you see no one harping on lotr. mtg is simply a game to 99.9% of players, not a tool for strengthening 'satans army'. and in 99.9% of cases involving christians condemning mtg, they're entirely ignorant to what the game entails. not exactly making a strong case just by simply pointing at a product and saying its 'bad'.
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But other forum members are defending MTG, which IS in a way promotion.
I am defending players of MTG by saying they are not Satan worshippers. That is not defending MTG. LotR, which is WIDELY ADORED on this forum, could make a strong argument for having more magic themes in it, yet as MKchief said, no one is harping on them. All I am saying, is that MTG is simply a card game, it is not a tool of the devil, and in no way is it a sinful game. It is just a hobby, nothing else. IMO...
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Hmm, any game that suggests that using/wielding sorcery AS A GOOD THING is not something that I would think God would be too pleased about. By no means am I condemning those that play MTG, but it has no place with Redemption. The Bible warns of sorcery and witchcraft and I can only suggest that those of you who do divulge in MTG be wary. You may see it as a card game, and as a Christian it is just that, but, when it comes to unsaved persons, anything that is not of God is an access point for evil; whether it be movies, a card game, television, etc... The way many of these games are created lie in roots that go far deeper than you may imagine. Play the game if you wish, but listen closely to the Holy Spirit. MTG may be just a card game, but sorcery is not a joke and is not something to be taken lightly. God forgives all is true, but that doesn't give any of us a right to do anything that does not glorify Him. I am not perfect and I am not casting any judgment, I have many faults of my own that I must answer to God about, but I'm doing my best to correct my wrongdoings.
-C_S
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Simon the Magician and his charms say hi.
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Simon the Magician and his charms say hi.
I will correct my statement with my original intent which was to say: Using/wielding sorcery AS A GOOD THING. Redemption places magic/sorcery as evil. ;)
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Gandalf says hi.
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Gandalf says hi.
I don't personally agree with LoTR either. While I understand certain parts of it were supposed to represent Christian elements, it slightly offends me that they would have Jesus be represented by a sorcerer, but that's just me and to my knowledge, non-Christians were heavily involved in the making of the movie and free speech abounds in the US. ;)
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Gandalf isn't Jesus, he's an Angel.
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Gandalf isn't Jesus, he's an Angel.
Hm, well either way, the series doesn't sit well with me. It seems more like an entertainment series to me rather than something that glorifies God. And the confusion with my thoughts of Gandalf being Jesus was because my memory failed. I THOUGHT Gandalf the Gray supposedly died and came back as Gandalf the White, but now my memory serves me correctly, he didn't die, he just climbed out of the hole. The significance of gray to white escapes me because at the time I watched strictly for entertainment and not because of the religious connotations associated with it.
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there is a difference between practicing sorcery and casting magic missiles on bugbears...and a piece of cardboard. 'nuff said.
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there is a difference between practicing sorcery and casting magic missiles on bugbears...and a piece of cardboard. 'nuff said.
Just like there is a different between a lifestyle of sin and an act of sin. They're not the same thing. The Bible repeatedly forbids witchcraft and sorcery. Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean that it's ok. A lot of things are recorded in the Bible, but that's what the Bible is also... a Historical Document.
God's Grace sustains us and He'll give grace to those who'll need it. He won't reap judgment where He hasn't sown knowledge. But God's people parish for a lack of knowledge. I used to be an MTG player myself for many years and from personal experience it was a stumbling block. Sad thing is I got a lot of my friends involved in it and they're still addicted to it.
Just because it's a game on paper doesn't mean it's harmless, there are spirits that are involved. Response to spiritual influence creates atmosphere. It just sounds like the enemy has successfully deceived another person. MTG, D&D, YuGiOh are all inspirational forms of witchcraft & sorcery. Just because they're not actually sacrificing goats & chickens, cutting their wrists and doing enchantments doesn't mean they're revealing what's inside their hearts. People will emphasize what's important to them, what they value. What's inside you comes out of you. If you're impressed and interested in MTG, you'll play it. By doing so you're supporting the idea of witchcraft and sorcery.
God is a jealous God and He doesn't rival anything else. Mind you a god is anything you draw your strength or your substance from. A lot of MTG players play the game ritually, habitually, a lot of the time. Because they gain substance from it. It brings them joy, pleasure, and so on. But God is supposed to fulfill that... not some occultic game.
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its amazing how people can attach witchcraft, sorcery, spirits to the game...yet provide no proof whatsoever. i also find it highly ironic redemption blatantly sports 58475893794% more satanic material than mtg...yet mtg is the satanic game.
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Yes I don't like MTG but i don't like you calling my cousin and uncle(Both are christans btw) "satan's forces". And btw Aslan says hi.
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AS a former MTG player and a Redemption player I feel I must say something. MTG has a fundamental bent towards sorcery and the occult. The game's rulebook states that you take on the role of a planeswalker(basically an elite sorcerer) and using energy from the land or constructs (artifacts etc.)you cast spells and summon creatures to do your bidding. Many of those are at least demonic looking. To compare that to Redemption portraying magicians as Evil people who use demonic power and claiming Redemption is more satanic in my opinion is very unfair. Redemption allows the use of Magicians et al., Magic makes you roleplay as one.(At the very least according to the rulebook). Before I was saved I wondered about Christians who played Magic, because it seemed to me that playing this game would go against their philosophy.
Having said all of this, I realize that it is just a game. Christians who play Magic are perhaps making a poor choice, but are NOT worshiping Satan. I quit MTG because I liked Redemption better and felt better investing my cash in a card game that followed my beliefs(mostly). But I feel that comparing all MTG players to Satan's forces is not only wrong but sinful. Judging other Christians actions and behaviors are something we are not to do, or if we must admonish a brother or sister we are to do it in love. Calling them Satan's followers is not loving, this blatant over generalization of everything that does not line up to Our Christian beliefs must be satanic not only makes Christians look like fools, but damages the effectiveness of the gospel. It is one thing to pray for people who play MTG to come to know Christ, it is another to call them Satan's followers! There is actually a huge difference between doing something not good for your walk, and worshiping satan.
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Korunks=Awesome! +1
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AS a former MTG player and a Redemption player I feel I must say something. MTG has a fundamental bent towards sorcery and the occult. The game's rulebook states that you take on the role of a planeswalker(basically an elite sorcerer) and using energy from the land or constructs (artifacts etc.)you cast spells and summon creatures to do your bidding. Many of those are at least demonic looking. To compare that to Redemption portraying magicians as Evil people who use demonic power and claiming Redemption is more satanic in my opinion is very unfair. Redemption allows the use of Magicians et al., Magic makes you roleplay as one.(At the very least according to the rulebook). Before I was saved I wondered about Christians who played Magic, because it seemed to me that playing this game would go against their philosophy.
Having said all of this, I realize that it is just a game. Christians who play Magic are perhaps making a poor choice, but are NOT worshiping Satan. I quit MTG because I liked Redemption better and felt better investing my cash in a card game that followed my beliefs(mostly). But I feel that comparing all MTG players to Satan's forces is not only wrong but sinful. Judging other Christians actions and behaviors are something we are not to do, or if we must admonish a brother or sister we are to do it in love. Calling them Satan's followers is not loving, this blatant over generalization of everything that does not line up to Our Christian beliefs must be satanic not only makes Christians look like fools, but damages the effectiveness of the gospel. It is one thing to pray for people who play MTG to come to know Christ, it is another to call them Satan's followers! There is actually a huge difference between doing something not good for your walk, and worshiping satan.
very good explanation, i just would like to point out a few things. mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc. do we truly believe we are satan or demons when we are using these evil characters to block rescue attempts? no. it is a fundamental part of the game. just because we are playing a part of the game does not mean we actually are these characters. on the same line of thought, i would venture to say playing with creatures in mtg is far more morally sound than playing with evil characters in redemption because mtg has a very strict policy against portraying anything blatantly satanic or even remotely related to the bible. the creatures in mtg are as much monsters as are frankenstein, dracula, werewolf, etc...purely figments of our imaginations. the closest line mtg walks is by having angels and demons in the game, but redemption has more than its fair share as well. i know many christians that play mtg, and it has not deterred them in their walk of faith, nor should they be condemned because of it. its a fantasy game with imaginary elements, bottom line.
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Still who wants to play some rts this saturday?
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mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc.
This is not true from what I understand about MTG. In Redemption you block with KoT or whoever, and if they lose the battle, then they die (are discarded), but you as a person are not actually involved. In MTG you have a certain number of personal life points, and if you lose battles you lose life points. Your opponent wins at the point where you run out of life points and "die". This is a very different feel of a game. Instead of it being my GCs attacking your ECs, it becomes I am attacking You. Therefore in MTG, there is innately more "roleplaying" than there is in Redemption.
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very good explanation, i just would like to point out a few things. mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc. do we truly believe we are satan or demons when we are using these evil characters to block rescue attempts?
A good point. What I was trying to say that according to the Rulebook you were playing the part of a planeswalker. I know many players don't even pay attention to this detail of the game(I know I didn't). However it is in the rulebook so at least on paper MTG has you play as a wizard. Also to the point that Prof mentioned above there are certain inherent role play attributes of the game.
i would venture to say playing with creatures in mtg is far more morally sound than playing with evil characters in redemption because mtg has a very strict policy against portraying anything blatantly satanic or even remotely related to the bible. the creatures in mtg are as much monsters as are frankenstein, dracula, werewolf, etc...purely figments of our imaginations. the closest line mtg walks is by having angels and demons in the game, but redemption has more than its fair share as well.
I left MTG years ago so their stance may be different then when I played. But I remember cards like Wrath of God which kills all creatures, good and evil alike. And there were several demonic cards in the original sets(Demonic Tutor pops into mind). Now I might agree with you in the case of maybe the Blue or Green Creatures. But especially in the early sets black had a lot of Demonic cards, and cards that revolved around necromancy which actually does slightly encroach on the bible(story of the witch at endor, to name one). Now I can only speak to my experiences in early MTG so if this has changed, than good.
i know many christians that play mtg, and it has not deterred them in their walk of faith, nor should they be condemned because of it. its a fantasy game with imaginary elements, bottom line.
True but there are elements that aren't good for christians to view. There are many cards with characters dressed bordering on nudity, gore, Evil creatures feasting on others(blood included), and some other disturbing images. I know redemption has a few cards with women of questionable dress(Bathsheba, Jezebel, Whore of Babylon why do we even have those cards?). But I do not know of any redemption cards with gore or that level of dark artwork. I know that these are imaginary creatures but those dark images are not necessarily good for Christians to fill their mind with. The Bible says we should focus on holy, spiritual, and good things, I would say these are not any of the above. Is it a sin?, thats between you and God. I would hesitate to say that it does not matter because it isn't real. The creatures depicted are not, but the feelings and mind set it can create are. But again I am not saying anyone should be condemned for playing, but should definitely evaluate whether they should play( how the images and game play affect you vary from individual to individual), than how they should play, and what colors and cards they should play. I hope that helped clarify my answers.
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mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc.
This is not true from what I understand about MTG. In Redemption you block with KoT or whoever, and if they lose the battle, then they die (are discarded), but you as a person are not actually involved. In MTG you have a certain number of personal life points, and if you lose battles you lose life points. Your opponent wins at the point where you run out of life points and "die". This is a very different feel of a game. Instead of it being my GCs attacking your ECs, it becomes I am attacking You. Therefore in MTG, there is innately more "roleplaying" than there is in Redemption.
im surprised you would try to rationalize away the glaring similiarities between both games. to win in mtg, you must deduct points from your opponent. to win in redemption, you must gain points from your opponent. its exactly the same thing mind the point totals going in opposite directions. mtg has creatures to attempt to deduct points from the opponent. redemption has heroes to try to gain points from the opponent. mtg has creatures to block your opponent from deducting points from you. redemption has ec's to block your opponent from gaining points from you. to say mtg involves more roleplaying than redemption is a blinding oversight, because both games win mechanics operate almost exactly the same.
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im surprised you would try to rationalize away the glaring similiarities between both games. to win in mtg, you must deduct points from your opponent. to win in redemption, you must gain points from your opponent. its exactly the same thing mind the point totals going in opposite directions. mtg has creatures to attempt to deduct points from the opponent. redemption has heroes to try to gain points from the opponent. mtg has creatures to block your opponent from deducting points from you. redemption has ec's to block your opponent from gaining points from you. to say mtg involves more roleplaying than redemption is a blinding oversight, because both games win mechanics operate almost exactly the same.
Game point mechanics aside, the fact that is in Redemption you are not attacking your opponent directly but attempting to rescue lost souls. In MTG you are dealing Damage to your opponent, In redemption your are leading souls to redemption. Similar Mechanics yes, similar reasoning? Not by a long shot.
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there is a difference between practicing sorcery and casting magic missiles on bugbears...and a piece of cardboard. 'nuff said.
very good explanation, i just would like to point out a few things. mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc. do we truly believe we are satan or demons when we are using these evil characters to block rescue attempts?
A good point. What I was trying to say that according to the Rulebook you were playing the part of a planeswalker. I know many players don't even pay attention to this detail of the game(I know I didn't). However it is in the rulebook so at least on paper MTG has you play as a wizard. Also to the point that Prof mentioned above there are certain inherent role play attributes of the game.
i would venture to say playing with creatures in mtg is far more morally sound than playing with evil characters in redemption because mtg has a very strict policy against portraying anything blatantly satanic or even remotely related to the bible. the creatures in mtg are as much monsters as are frankenstein, dracula, werewolf, etc...purely figments of our imaginations. the closest line mtg walks is by having angels and demons in the game, but redemption has more than its fair share as well.
i know many christians that play mtg, and it has not deterred them in their walk of faith, nor should they be condemned because of it. its a fantasy game with imaginary elements, bottom line.
very good explanation, i just would like to point out a few things. mtg is no more roleplaying than a player in redemption is when he blocks with king of tyrus, prince of this world, red dragon, etc. do we truly believe we are satan or demons when we are using these evil characters to block rescue attempts? no. it is a fundamental part of the game. just because we are playing a part of the game does not mean we actually are these characters. on the same line of thought, i would venture to say playing with creatures in mtg is far more morally sound than playing with evil characters in redemption because mtg has a very strict policy against portraying anything blatantly satanic or even remotely related to the bible. the creatures in mtg are as much monsters as are frankenstein, dracula, werewolf, etc...purely figments of our imaginations. the closest line mtg walks is by having angels and demons in the game, but redemption has more than its fair share as well. i know many christians that play mtg, and it has not deterred them in their walk of faith, nor should they be condemned because of it. its a fantasy game with imaginary elements, bottom line.
its amazing how people can attach witchcraft, sorcery, spirits to the game...yet provide no proof whatsoever. i also find it highly ironic redemption blatantly sports 58475893794% more satanic material than mtg...yet mtg is the satanic game.
"You are a planeswalker with an arsenal of sorcery at your command. You have laid eyes upon the Blind Eternities. In the vast Multiverse, only you and your kind know of the countless worlds beyond your own. Your gift drives you to seek out Magical knowledge, to test your limits, to forge your destiny. Your journey begins here." Quoted straight from the MTG website. Is that proof enough?
For the record, I personally did not say that by playing MTG you are worshiping Satan, but I will say that you are definitely not glorifying God. Redemption is based off of real spiritual warfare and thus any use of magic is because it's used in real life. In games like MTG they take sorcery and magic quite lightly and treat it like it's just a game when it's not. Sorcery is a very real thing and not something to take in passing. Play if you wish, but it has no place here. I can already see that just by this discussion, it is a stumbling block to the whole group because opinions are clearly divided.
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The Bible warns of sorcery and witchcraft and I can only suggest that those of you who do divulge in MTG be wary.
Playing a card game, which has witches and sorcery in it, is in no way practicing witchcraft. Yes you REPRESENT a sorcerer who controls creatures to fight other sorcerers, but in real life that is in no way of practicing witchcraft or anything really remotely close.
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Who here plays Call of Duty...we can really have a discussion then about pretend morality. ;D
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Don't play Mario it has ghosts.
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The Bible warns of sorcery and witchcraft and I can only suggest that those of you who do divulge in MTG be wary.
Playing a card game, which has witches and sorcery in it, is in no way practicing witchcraft. Yes you REPRESENT a sorcerer who controls creatures to fight other sorcerers, but in real life that is in no way of practicing witchcraft or anything really remotely close.
Did I say you had to be practicing sorcery and witchcraft? No, I was merely warning that MTG deals with sorcery and witchcraft and thus, you should exercise caution. With roots in sorcery, often times games have you use a spell that is based off of actual spells, and this MAY breed spiritual activity. You don't have to practice evil acts in order to participate in evil acts. It is quite common for non-Christians playing MTG to use vulgar language and give in to outbursts of anger. Would you disagree that some of these acts of anger are not caused by unholy spirits? You say that representing a sorcerer is not practicing witchcraft, but yet in reality you are basically admitting that sorcery is ok. It gives me the impression that you are somewhat compromising your beliefs and contradicting yourself. I'm not here to judge because as I've said, there are many things that I do that do not Glorify God and I have no excuse for any of them. What you do concerning your faith and beliefs is up to you, but I'm just telling you, don't take these things lightly because it's not a joke.
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Don't play Mario it has ghosts.
Ghosts don't exist; evil spirits and demons however, do. I'm not saying don't play MTG, because that's none of my business to tell what to do, I'm just letting you know that you should know what you are truly dealing with. I guess Harry Potter is ok in your books then? It sure isn't in mine, but I know SEVERAL Christians who see it as ok.
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I guess Harry Potter is ok in your books then? It sure isn't in mine, but I know SEVERAL Christians who see it as ok.
IMO, portraying magic as a good thing is not something that Christians should endorse, but it's okay to read Harry Potter as long as you fully recognize that magic in real life as we think of it today is founded upon demonic practices. :2cents:
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/Facepalm
I'm gonna quick say my peace then leave. Anything can be used by satan. K thx bai
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Perhaps I should make a quick clarification, based on a few points:
"satan's forces" = fallen angels, i.e. demons.
Yeah, I played MTG, and I was pretty good with it. Any game where you use demons to destroy your opponent's life opens the door to something that is not holy. Paul says to fill our minds with "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy". Can a Christian play MTG and still be saved? Absolutely. However, there is a spirit behind that game, and it gives a foothold to the enemy that I don't want in my life.
Personally, I don't play most games that involve magic. This includes DnD, Shadowrun, LotR, and MTG. This is a choice that everyone must make for themselves.
Remember that the Bible says that satan is a liar and deceiver. I'm sure most, if not all, of you have heard a variation of the following from your youth pastor:
Satan: Oh, it's only a little touching
it's only a little kissing, there's nothing wrong with that.
And so on and so forth, until the couple in question aren't virgins.
So you can see why the hairs on the back of my neck stand up a bit when you say "You only REPRESENT a sorcerer." or "It's only a card game". No, I'm not saying you'll lose your virginity if you play MTG. The opposite will most likely happen, but we won't get into that. However, I see a need to be more aware than throwing an excuse at it.
Redemption has the forces of evil as well. But it's an accurate representation of the real spiritual world. Anytime we go out to witness and win lost souls to Christ, the forces of evil resist us. In MTG, the point is to reduce someone else's life to zero. Call it points if you like. I can think of many euphemisms that make stuff seem ok.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12:There shall not be found among you any... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD. No, MTG doesn't exactly do this stuff. But does that make it ok?
Another personal decision of mine is to not kiss until I'm married. A bit strict? Yes. But I do not want to be tempted to go further than I should, and I have set boundaries to make sure that doesn't happen.
We should not get as close to sin as possible, and then break off at the last moment.
One last thing: If they're "just cards", is Tarot ok?
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Perhaps I should make a quick clarification, based on a few points:
"satan's forces" = fallen angels, i.e. demons.
Yeah, I played MTG, and I was pretty good with it. Any game where you use demons to destroy your opponent's life opens the door to something that is not holy. Paul says to fill our minds with "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy". Can a Christian play MTG and still be saved? Absolutely. However, there is a spirit behind that game, and it gives a foothold to the enemy that I don't want in my life.
Personally, I don't play most games that involve magic. This includes DnD, Shadowrun, LotR, and MTG. This is a choice that everyone must make for themselves.
Remember that the Bible says that satan is a liar and deceiver. I'm sure most, if not all, of you have heard a variation of the following from your youth pastor:
Satan: Oh, it's only a little touching
it's only a little kissing, there's nothing wrong with that.
And so on and so forth, until the couple in question aren't virgins.
So you can see why the hairs on the back of my neck stand up a bit when you say "You only REPRESENT a sorcerer." or "It's only a card game". No, I'm not saying you'll lose your virginity if you play MTG. The opposite will most likely happen, but we won't get into that. However, I see a need to be more aware than throwing an excuse at it.
Redemption has the forces of evil as well. But it's an accurate representation of the real spiritual world. Anytime we go out to witness and win lost souls to Christ, the forces of evil resist us. In MTG, the point is to reduce someone else's life to zero. Call it points if you like. I can think of many euphemisms that make stuff seem ok.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12:There shall not be found among you any... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD. No, MTG doesn't exactly do this stuff. But does that make it ok?
Another personal decision of mine is to not kiss until I'm married. A bit strict? Yes. But I do not want to be tempted to go further than I should, and I have set boundaries to make sure that doesn't happen.
We should not get as close to sin as possible, and then break off at the last moment.
One last thing: If they're "just cards", is Tarot ok?
+1 100%
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It makes me sad that several Christian on this board, namely Master KChief, are so quick to defend a game that they play and argue with a fellow Christian that they compare Redemption to MTG.
Seriously?
You have the devil, several versions of him in fact, in Redemption. Guess what kiddies? He's evil. YOU represent a sorcerer in MTG, and YOU summon spells and creatures to fight at YOUR side; YOU ARE THE EVIL ONE in MTG. Er... I apologize, you REPRESENT the evil person in MTG. I mean, we can all agree spell caster are demonic, right? So therefore you are representing a demonic figure by playing the game. You can say that "it's all a game" all you want and make other random excuses, but seriously, you're representing a spell caster. That doesn't sound like something God would want his children taking part in.
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Who here plays Call of Duty...we can really have a discussion then about pretend morality. ;D
I do believe I mentioned somewhere along the line that not glorifying God isn't just limited to MTG ;) But let's not get off-topic now shall we? (BTW, I'm not trying to avoid the discussion of CoD because the Bible is very clear about murder, and the killing of others, it just doesn't quite pertain to the current discussion).
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That doesn't sound like something God would want his children taking part in.
Can we just be clear that it IS something God doesn't want us to do? Instead of it SOUNDS like it?
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You can play MTG in a way that is positive as well...outside of killing your opponent. How about playing a white deck that is based around angels and protection/life gain. Having said that, I played MTG in my distant past and have recently put together a few decks to play with established MTG players at our local card store. I find that this common ground gives me a platform from which to speak. Should all do this, of course not, because all were not called to reach out in such hostile territory. I think that the "all things are permissible yet all things are not beneficial" theology can be applied to this thread quite easily. Players are being exposed to Redemption through these efforts since I of course invite MTG players to play my favorite game once we have played their favorite game...
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You can play MTG in a way that is positive as well...outside of killing your opponent. How about playing a white deck that is based around angels and protection/life gain. Having said that, I played MTG in my distant past and have recently put together a few decks to play with established MTG players at our local card store. I find that this common ground gives me a platform from which to speak. Should all do this, of course not, because all were not called to reach out in such hostile territory. I think that the "all things are permissible yet all things are not beneficial" theology can be applied to this thread quite easily. Players are being exposed to Redemption through these efforts since I of course invite MTG players to play my favorite game once we have played their favorite game...
It's funny you should mention that because it gives me the idea that you could play CoD by running around with a riot shield, smoke/stun grenades or flashbangs lol...
It doesn't matter what color the deck is or who you choose to fight in battle with you, it is still implied that you are represented as a sorcerer and your angels are attacking another sorcerer (Played by a real human being). There is a difference between associating with those that aren't saved and participating with those that are unsaved. Look at Jesus, he hung out with Samaritans, tax collectors, the poor, lepers, thieves, etc yet He did not participate in their activities. Instead, He ate dinner with them, spoke with them, and He loved them, but He didn't do what they did.
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i have refrained from commenting further on this topic because it has devolved to nothing more than a) ignorance or b) complete unabashed hypocrisy. trying to slam mtg as the gateway ccg to real 'sorcery, magic, spells, oh my', while redemption portrays FAR MORE satanic, demonic, and blatantly evil magical material than mtg ever will is doing nothing more than trying to rationalize away the stark similarities between both games. at the end of the day, DO NOT DISTRESS!...both mtg and redemption players alike will safely return to their homes and cozy beds after each gaming session...and not to stirring pig ears and bat eyes into a bubbling cauldron. stop making mountains out of mole-hills. if you cant handle the genre of 'magic' being used in a completely imaginative fantasy setting and nothing more than for entertainment value from movies (star wars, lotr, chronicles of narnia, whatever) to card games, then certainly don't condemn those that can. especially when you're playing a card game sporting it primarily in pale green brigade.
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Good point...so I should not play a game with them...hmmm...
I am sure that I am not even pretending to be a sorcerer but simply playing cards...
With that same standard, are we not playing "God" when we play Redemption...
I will have to pray further on this one cause doors have been flying open at the card store...
Isn't it what comes out of a man that defiles him rather than what goes in...
Can my heart be right with God in the midst of playing a game like this...
Doesn't God see my heart rather than the outward...
What about Paul's example of using the altar to the unknown God to point to Jesus...
Didn't he participate in the discussions on Mars Hill where philosophy was god...
Are we doing what Pharisees/Sadducees did here by making this call...
Did I mention we have Tuesday night Redemption at that same card store now...
(sorry for thinking out loud like this, it just helps me to get it all out of my head)
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You guys keep insisting on avoiding the points others and myself have made. The discussion is going from fact to mere opinion as there is no longer a backing of scripture to the arguments. Find whatever excuse in your mind that makes it feel alright to you to play MTG, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, not one piece of MTG glorifies God. I'd refrain from using scripture to "Attack" a fellow believer because God's Word is sharper than a two-edged sword that divides even the bone from the marrow. In case you didn't know, that's EXTREMELY DEEP and HIGHLY PAINFUL. I'm not here trying to tell you how to live your life and how to follow God, I'm here telling you that your claims that MTG is an innocent card game is a farce, it's false. Slice the pie however you want, make any excuse you want, but the Key Point, the Main Idea of MTG, is that YOU are playing the part of a sorcerer. Now if you have some Biblical information to back your claims that MTG is innocent, I'm interested in hearing it and NOT your excuses.
-C_S
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Actually I never said MTG is an innocent card game. Why else would I be playing it but to get guys who are immersed in that culture out of it. I guess if you didn't catch my biblical inferences so I can make a more blatant one. I am in MTG but not of MTG...get it? We have to be willing to get dirty and go where people, who are away from God, gather. I actually sold a bulk of my MTG cards and used the money to further the Redemption ministry at the store. I think that your reluctance to tell people how to live their lives is good since they have to work out their own faith in fear and trembling.
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You guys keep insisting on avoiding the points others and myself have made. The discussion is going from fact to mere opinion as there is no longer a backing of scripture to the arguments. Find whatever excuse in your mind that makes it feel alright to you to play MTG, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, not one piece of MTG glorifies God. I'd refrain from using scripture to "Attack" a fellow believer because God's Word is sharper than a two-edged sword that divides even the bone from the marrow. In case you didn't know, that's EXTREMELY DEEP and HIGHLY PAINFUL. I'm not here trying to tell you how to live your life and how to follow God, I'm here telling you that your claims that MTG is an innocent card game is a farce, it's false. Slice the pie however you want, make any excuse you want, but the Key Point, the Main Idea of MTG, is that YOU are playing the part of a sorcerer. Now if you have some Biblical information to back your claims that MTG is innocent, I'm interested in hearing it and NOT your excuses.
-C_S
wrong. i am not a sorcerer. i am not playing the part of a sorcerer. i am not acting like im a sorcerer. i am playing a GAME that just so happens to depict completely unreal magical elements. MUCH in the same vein redemption contains the exact same material. do we accuse each other of being sorcerers everytime we assume control and block with simon the magician? if no, then the EXACT SAME THOUGHT PROCESS is easily extended to mtg. if yes, then enough with the hypocrisy.
driving a volvo also does not glorify god. 'not one piece'. i suppose thats also wrong using your exact line of thought.
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Find whatever excuse in your mind that makes it feel alright to you to play MTG, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, not one piece of MTG glorifies God.
That's a dangerous path to go down. I can argue that in the simple game of battleship, not one piece glorifies God. In fact, you are trying to "destroy" your opponent. Does that make it evil?
I would argue that the part of Redemption that TRULY glorifies God is the fellowship, the joy, the laughter, using God's talents and analytical skills and our minds to the best of our ability, and the peace that comes from doing something we enjoy/are good at as a break from work. The fact that Redemption teaches that we should seek to "save lost souls" and that the Bible is truly God's Word is a bonus. I'm not saying that they are less important, I'm saying that they can't be compared. Redemption has a quality about it that ALL sports, card games, board games, etc. have that glorify God, and Redemption (in this area) is equal to, say, volleyball. I love volleyball, I have a passion for the game, and I when I play, I'm not thinking about "rescuing lost souls" or that God's Word is true. I'm just enjoying the talents that God has given me, and through my interactions with my friends/family when I play, I bless them and am blessed in return. That is God's gift to us.
Please don't try to take too much of this, but I seriously wonder if the same can exist in a MTG game. Actually, I believe it can. Just like anything else, MTG could be used for evil, but ANYTHING can be evil if it becomes a god in your life. TV is an easy example. I don't believe a TV is inherently evil, but they can sure come between us and God. Does that mean we should all throw out our TVs? No.
I think this thread needs a serious dose of Romans 14. Ever since I read that chapter and listened to what God laid on my heart, I have been able to be at peace with so many things... Not that I accept or condone them, but that I can trust that it is up to God to judge other Christians' hearts, not me, and it is not necessary for my faith in Christ that everyone believe the same things I do.
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Quit Arugueing please i'm not dipping into this debate again this is anonying.
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Hey Red, I feel sorry for you that this thread turned into something it shouldn't of. I'm aware that your intentions were for this not to happen. If anything the enemy had placed some offense into the heart of others to draw division & strife amongst the body of believers here.
Here is something I'd like to see some input with. I see Red's first attempt of this thread as a counter culture effect towards the unsaved. An event that was supposed to be a light & a witness to those that don't know God and what "Redemption" really is. Not just the game but what it truely means to be saved.
With my experience I've been regularly playing in a secular hobby shop (yes with MTG players all around) with hopes to witness to them. As well as some type of evangelical effort to draw them into Christianity.
I noticed 1 guy using MTG had some bit of success, but I'm not open to playing MTG. I already overcame that and don't want another hurdle in my Walk with Christ.
But God has put some things in my heart towards the unsaved there. I do care for them and I have a burden to pray for many of them because I don't want to see them perish. Such as God put in my heart that I'm not getting to know them enough, I'm not loving on them enough, I'm not praying for them enough. Love covers a mulititude of sins. Jesus loved sinners but He hated the sin. He is also the answer for sin but 1 thing is for sure He didn't let them influence Him, He influenced them.
How can we influence the unsaved more. What can we do?
Example I've done, I've invited them to play redemption. Some have and some haven't.
I've handed out Redemption tracts.
I've played some non-occultic video games with them (so I could get to know them)
Offered to buy them food & drinks.
Shared the gospel with them.
We need to represent Christ to them and not draw them away from Christianity. We should look into ways how to get into their hearts & families and demonstrate the Love of Christ has not only for us... but for them also.
With that said, what have you've been doing? What could we do?
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Spot on, drew. If someone holding a different opinion than you has caused you this much offense, than I think you need to take a closer look at why that happened.
This thread was started for two reasons:
1.) Evangelism
2.) An excuse to play Redemption
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Spot on, drew. If someone holding a different opinion than you has caused you this much offense, than I think you need to take a closer look at why that happened.
This thread was started for two reasons:
1.) Evangelism
2.) An excuse to play Redemption
Actually I wasn't offended. I just don't want to see this thread continue as an arguement. We're commanded not to argue.
Also, I've kept my previous post in the same context of the message.
What can we do to reach the unsaved. Even simply playing redemption evangelizing because of the contents of the game. It's happened to my playgroup dozens of times where people have asked us what we're playing and what's it about.
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Nor was I offended.
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Actually I never said MTG is an innocent card game. Why else would I be playing it but to get guys who are immersed in that culture out of it. I guess if you didn't catch my biblical inferences so I can make a more blatant one. I am in MTG but not of MTG...get it? We have to be willing to get dirty and go where people, who are away from God, gather. I actually sold a bulk of my MTG cards and used the money to further the Redemption ministry at the store. I think that your reluctance to tell people how to live their lives is good since they have to work out their own faith in fear and trembling.
I play redemption in a secular hobby shop with Disciple_Drew all the time. Although I'm not as active in my evangelism (Not really one of my gifts), I'm present when MTG is played, but I do not play, that's the difference. I like the idea of being able to witness to them, but I'm not going to join them in a game of MTG. If you have the strength to avoid compromise while playing with them, then more power through you if that's how God is leading you.
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You guys keep insisting on avoiding the points others and myself have made. The discussion is going from fact to mere opinion as there is no longer a backing of scripture to the arguments. Find whatever excuse in your mind that makes it feel alright to you to play MTG, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, not one piece of MTG glorifies God. I'd refrain from using scripture to "Attack" a fellow believer because God's Word is sharper than a two-edged sword that divides even the bone from the marrow. In case you didn't know, that's EXTREMELY DEEP and HIGHLY PAINFUL. I'm not here trying to tell you how to live your life and how to follow God, I'm here telling you that your claims that MTG is an innocent card game is a farce, it's false. Slice the pie however you want, make any excuse you want, but the Key Point, the Main Idea of MTG, is that YOU are playing the part of a sorcerer. Now if you have some Biblical information to back your claims that MTG is innocent, I'm interested in hearing it and NOT your excuses.
-C_S
wrong. i am not a sorcerer. i am not playing the part of a sorcerer. i am not acting like im a sorcerer. i am playing a GAME that just so happens to depict completely unreal magical elements. MUCH in the same vein redemption contains the exact same material. do we accuse each other of being sorcerers everytime we assume control and block with simon the magician? if no, then the EXACT SAME THOUGHT PROCESS is easily extended to mtg. if yes, then enough with the hypocrisy.
driving a volvo also does not glorify god. 'not one piece'. i suppose thats also wrong using your exact line of thought.
To be blunt, during the debates that I have seen you take part in in the past I thought highly of your intelligence and your will to get to the bottom of an issue.
This has all changed.
You are blatantly disregarding everything I have said, and everything others have said, ranting your little "you're a hypocrite because Simon the Magician is a sorcerer" deal without actually addressing the DIRECT refutation that I stated, and others have stated and it's getting a little tiresome. You refuse to read the comments (or perhaps you did read but just didn't respond to them) that myself and others have made and stand by your defense of a game that you play.
If you're going to enter a discussion, call people hypocrites, and defend a game on a Christian forum that many (maybe not you but many including the moderators) have deemed unacceptable for young Christian men and women, you'd better have good arguments. You have none, and technically you should be warned for you defense of a topic that has been deemed by the leaders of this board as unacceptable to discuss.
Now unlike you, I'd like to respond to the argument my "opponent" has made. You say it's the exact same thing, yet you refuse to respond to the fact that in Redemption, they disdain and do not accept Simon the Magician. He is an EVIL CHARACTER: if this is not a clear distinction between good and evil, what is? In MTG everything is acceptable; the magic is GOOD.
Please read this, and think before you respond again. Or better yet, obey the rules of these forums and don't defend the game at all.
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wrong. i am not a sorcerer. i am not playing the part of a sorcerer. i am not acting like im a sorcerer. i am playing a GAME that just so happens to depict completely unreal magical elements. MUCH in the same vein redemption contains the exact same material. do we accuse each other of being sorcerers everytime we assume control and block with simon the magician? if no, then the EXACT SAME THOUGHT PROCESS is easily extended to mtg. if yes, then enough with the hypocrisy.
driving a volvo also does not glorify god. 'not one piece'. i suppose thats also wrong using your exact line of thought.
I never said you were a sorcerer, but when you play MTG, your "role" within that game is that of a sorcerer. That's how the game is set up. In Redemption you don't have a "role." And in Redemption, the magicians are evil just like they are in real life, in MTG they are both good and bad. I really don't see a true equation between Redemption and MTG. Of course I wrote this before I saw this... v v v
To be blunt, during the debates that I have seen you take part in in the past I thought highly of your intelligence and your will to get to the bottom of an issue.
This has all changed.
You are blatantly disregarding everything I have said, and everything others have said, ranting your little "you're a hypocrite because Simon the Magician is a sorcerer" deal without actually addressing the DIRECT refutation that I stated, and others have stated and it's getting a little tiresome. You refuse to read the comments (or perhaps you did read but just didn't respond to them) that myself and others have made and stand by your defense of a game that you play.
If you're going to enter a discussion, call people hypocrites, and defend a game on a Christian forum that many (maybe not you but many including the moderators) have deemed unacceptable for young Christian men and women, you'd better have good arguments. You have none, and technically you should be warned for you defense of a topic that has been deemed by the leaders of this board as unacceptable to discuss.
Now unlike you, I'd like to respond to the argument my "opponent" has made. You say it's the exact same thing, yet you refuse to respond to the fact that in Redemption, they disdain and do not accept Simon the Magician. He is an EVIL CHARACTER: if this is not a clear distinction between good and evil, what is? In MTG everything is acceptable; the magic is GOOD.
Please read this, and think before you respond again. Or better yet, obey the rules of these forums and don't defend the game at all.
+1
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Funny story. My cousin, back in Junior High, thought the game of Magic was pretty cool, but he adamantly believed it was evil. So he made his own solution. Literally. He made his own game that was basically the same (lands, creatures, tap lands to play creatures), but he changed all the names of everything so that it wasn't "magical" in any way. Him, his brother, me, and my brothers all literally designed our own cards and played. My cousin named his game "Fuzzpuffs". Was his game evil? What about considering that Fuzzpuffs was his way, his "outlet", to play Magic in every way except that it wasn't called magic?
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Find whatever excuse in your mind that makes it feel alright to you to play MTG, but as I have repeatedly pointed out, not one piece of MTG glorifies God.
That's a dangerous path to go down. I can argue that in the simple game of battleship, not one piece glorifies God. In fact, you are trying to "destroy" your opponent. Does that make it evil?
I would argue that the part of Redemption that TRULY glorifies God is the fellowship, the joy, the laughter, using God's talents and analytical skills and our minds to the best of our ability, and the peace that comes from doing something we enjoy/are good at as a break from work. The fact that Redemption teaches that we should seek to "save lost souls" and that the Bible is truly God's Word is a bonus. I'm not saying that they are less important, I'm saying that they can't be compared. Redemption has a quality about it that ALL sports, card games, board games, etc. have that glorify God, and Redemption (in this area) is equal to, say, volleyball. I love volleyball, I have a passion for the game, and I when I play, I'm not thinking about "rescuing lost souls" or that God's Word is true. I'm just enjoying the talents that God has given me, and through my interactions with my friends/family when I play, I bless them and am blessed in return. That is God's gift to us.
Please don't try to take too much of this, but I seriously wonder if the same can exist in a MTG game. Actually, I believe it can. Just like anything else, MTG could be used for evil, but ANYTHING can be evil if it becomes a god in your life. TV is an easy example. I don't believe a TV is inherently evil, but they can sure come between us and God. Does that mean we should all throw out our TVs? No.
I think this thread needs a serious dose of Romans 14. Ever since I read that chapter and listened to what God laid on my heart, I have been able to be at peace with so many things... Not that I accept or condone them, but that I can trust that it is up to God to judge other Christians' hearts, not me, and it is not necessary for my faith in Christ that everyone believe the same things I do.
That was taken a bit out of context. Breathing doesn't necessarily glorify God by that logic. If you look at my other posts, I have stated that if anyone can play MTG for the purpose of reaching the unsaved and you are being led by God, then who am I to disagree. However, playing it just to play is somewhat contradictory to your statements. The problem I see is that a few on here have said that there is NOTHING wrong with playing MTG, but when you read the basic principles of the game, there are quite few things that can/do make it wrong to play MTG. And this is where I again state that using scripture solely against other believers is an even more dangerous road. My use/mention of scripture is to back up my statements about MTG, not to condemn, rebuke, or convict other Christians. I was asked to provide evidence and I have.
-C_S
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I like to think of this as the "baseball bat" scenario. You can own a baseball bat, and play baseball with it, or you can use it to smash mailboxes.
Is MTG directly worshiping statan/the occult? No.
Can it be bad/used for evil things? Very yes.
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Funny story. My cousin, back in Junior High, thought the game of Magic was pretty cool, but he adamantly believed it was evil. So he made his own solution. Literally. He made his own game that was basically the same (lands, creatures, tap lands to play creatures), but he changed all the names of everything so that it wasn't "magical" in any way. Him, his brother, me, and my brothers all literally designed our own cards and played. My cousin named his game "Fuzzpuffs". Was his game evil? What about considering that Fuzzpuffs was his way, his "outlet", to play Magic in every way except that it wasn't called magic?
Fantasy is not spoken of in the Bible. Magic, sorcery, and witchcraft, however, is. I'm just urging caution is all.
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That was taken a bit out of context. Breathing doesn't necessarily glorify God by that logic. If you look at my other posts, I have stated that if anyone can play MTG for the purpose of reaching the unsaved and you are being led by God, then who am I to disagree. However, playing it just to play is somewhat contradictory to your statements. The problem I see is that a few on here have said that there is NOTHING wrong with playing MTG, but when you read the basic principles of the game, there are quite few things that can/do make it wrong to play MTG. And this is where I again state that using scripture solely against other believers is an even more dangerous road. My use/mention of scripture is to back up my statements about MTG, not to condemn, rebuke, or convict other Christians. I was asked to provide evidence and I have.
-C_S
Here is the problem I see. Nowhere did any of the defenders of MTG ever say that they were "playing just to play". You have no idea what it is like when they play, but since this is what you have beef with, it appears you assumed it for them. And that is the problem that the defenders have! You are not qualified to pass judgment on it because you can't possibly know what it is like when they play the game. There were some possible ways presented in which the game could be played and not inherently "sinful" - you even said one yourself. When presented with the option of believing the best about someone (that playing MTG is something they have worked out between them and God) or believing the worst (that they are not glorifying God when they play), you should ALWAYS believe the best. It's what Paul teaches in Romans 14.
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I like to think of this as the "baseball bat" scenario. You can own a baseball bat, and play baseball with it, or you can use it to smash mailboxes.
Is MTG directly worshiping statan/the occult? No.
Can it be bad/used for evil things? Very yes.
I agree completely. That's why I used the TV analogy earlier.
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Here is the problem I see. Nowhere did any of the defenders of MTG ever say that they were "playing just to play". You have no idea what it is like when they play, but since this is what you have beef with, it appears you assumed it for them. And that is the problem that the defenders have! You are not qualified to pass judgment on it because you can't possibly know what it is like when they play the game. There were some possible ways presented in which the game could be played and not inherently "sinful" - you even said one yourself. When presented with the option of believing the best about someone (that playing MTG is something they have worked out between them and God) or believing the worst (that they are not glorifying God when they play), you should ALWAYS believe the best. It's what Paul teaches in Romans 14.
I believe that you'll find that the basis of your post: the part where I said "Playing just to play" is on page 2. Maybe those exact words where not used, but there has been no response by the individuals who drew me to those conclusion that would lead me to believe that they play with the goal of witnessing. I'm not specifically targeting people; all I said was that it isn't necessarily just a game. Stop trying to swing God's Word at me, I've warned you several times not to do that. You're assuming that I'm not aware of my walk with God and you're assuming that I'm here to cast judgment when I've stated quite a few times that I'M NOT HERE TO CONDEMN ANYONE.
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Topic locked by request.