Author Topic: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament  (Read 2817 times)

Offline Kordel Lentine

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Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« on: June 13, 2011, 12:47:42 PM »
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In preparing for hosting the MO State Tournament this year, I have been looking through my old tournament notes.  After reading my wrap-up for the 2002-2003 tournament year (where I hosted State, Regional, and Nationals), I found a list of things to do differently next time.  One thing I noted back then was that as we started to use a spreadsheet more and more, a better way of notifying players of results was necessary.  After attending a state and regional tournament earlier this year, I still see this as a weak area in the game.

As the tournament tracker has drastically improved over the years, its use is even more widespread.  This is good, but the problem it creates is that players rarely know much about their standings in the tournament.  Options are pretty much reduced to either making a guesstimate for how you're doing based on the order your name is called, or bothering a busy tournament host (who is often pulled in many directions at the same time, with more important things to do) to ask where you're ranked. 

Of course, we could say it is not about the rankings but about the fun and fellowship, but that's only half true.  I have hosted over 100 Redemption tournaments (I stopped counting years ago when that number topped 100), and almost EVERY player I've met likes knowing how they are ranked both DURING and AFTER the tournament.

What's the solution?  I don't think it's going back to taping Swiss-Style Score Cards to the wall in order of score (especially for larger events).  It's also not turning the computer (almost always a laptop) around when not in use--what host wants players leaning over their keyboard while drinking soda and eating chips??

This year at Missouri State, I am going to try something different (different for me, anyway--maybe someone else has already done this?).  I will bring a spare computer monitor that will face the players who would otherwise be standing on the wrong side of my laptop screen.  It used to be that you needed an extra video card or special software to add a second monitor, but new computers running Windows 7 now come by default with the capability to plug a second monitor into the com port and either use it to mirror the active monitor (so players can watch what you are doing) or as an extension of your screen (so you can drag over only what you want them to be able to see).

This might also help with another long-time weakness:  notifying players of who they are playing next.  In a larger event, it can be time-consuming to call out pairings, and I've repeatedly seen players embarrassed and hosts frustrated when players didn't understand where they were supposed to go after multiple announcements.  The best solution I have ever seen is being able to announce:  "Current rankings are now posted.  You have 5 minutes to see where you are ranked, and which table you will be playing at next."  A second monitor would make this an easy option for tournaments using the Tournament Tracker.

browarod

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 03:16:39 PM »
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I know at most tournaments I've attended, rankings are purposefully withheld during active play. Not sure why, but it's rare that I can ask halfway in and be told succinctly "you are currently in Xth place." Apparently it's some big secret, lol.

I like your idea with the second monitor, though. Technology, ftw.

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 03:19:00 PM »
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I got a projector for my birthday, and I plan on using that with my netbook.

One problem with your plan (and the reason it's so hard to find rankings) is that I can check up to two or three decks.  If I know Bob's playing Deck X, then when I know I'm going to play him, I'll just use Deck X counter.  As the host, you're supposed to make the players pick up their decks before announcing seats.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 03:27:37 PM »
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he can still post the current rankings/table after the players have already picked up their decks. if i recall correctly, nats 2005 was done in the exact same fashion with current rankings always projected so everyone could always see, and since then i've been waiting for the same practice to be implemented since it saves so much time and confusion...and kory is exactly right, the majority of players are curious about their current standings. excellent idea kory, i cant wait for MO state.
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 03:30:10 PM »
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he can still post the current rankings/table after the players have already picked up their decks. if i recall correctly, nats 2005 was done in the exact same fashion with current rankings always projected so everyone could always see, and since then i've been waiting for the same practice to be implemented since it saves so much time and confusion...and kory is exactly right, the majority of players are curious about their current standings. excellent idea kory, i cant wait for MO state.
They did that at MA nats (2010) as well, and it worked splendidly.  I was just warning him about having it on all the time (which is what it sounded like he was doing).
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 03:51:09 PM »
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I know at most tournaments I've attended, rankings are purposefully withheld during active play. Not sure why, but it's rare that I can ask halfway in and be told succinctly "you are currently in Xth place." Apparently it's some big secret, lol.

The reason that I do not announce standings and points is that some people try to manipulate the system to allow friends/relatives to gain a place. Once I start hearing people say, "You can't place, but if you let me win 5-0, then I can get third," then I feel it is better that they did not know the specifics.

I realize that the majority of players do not do this, but unfortunately the few that do have forced me to make necessary changes.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 03:54:42 PM »
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have you simply tried DQ'ing people that you have heard engaged in collusion?
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 04:06:51 PM »
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have you simply tried DQ'ing people that you have heard engaged in collusion?

I don't think that taking them to Diary Queen will discourage the behavior.

As a teacher, I have adopted many rules during tests that are meant to remove the temptation to cheat. Most of those rules were developed because of specific attempts to cheat that I caught (or thought of on my own). Having those rules for every test has helped prevent most attempts to cheat in my classes for over twelve years.

It is difficult for me to not adopt habits from teaching in my everyday life, especially when I am in a position of authority. I simply do what has always worked.

The top players know that they can ask me about their standings and I will tell them (if the situation warrants it).
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 04:18:45 PM »
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the question is whether or not it is common knowledge for a player to know his current standing. if it is not, then there is no discussion. if it is, then that information should be readily available to any player at any time, regardless of being a top player or not. just as we assume the best of a players integrity in the actual playing of the game (and dont require having a judge or witness posted at every single match to ensure no cheating ensues), then i see no reason why we cannot also extend that exact same courtesy in other areas of the game where integrity comes into question.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 05:13:49 PM »
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I love being discourteous to my players. It brings me great joy.
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Offline Kordel Lentine

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 06:32:41 PM »
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I love being discourteous to my players. It brings me great joy.

Ooh--sarcasm.  I just LU-UV sarcasm!  (This is best said as sarcastically as possible.  If done right, it is almost as good as screaming at the top of your lungs, "I'M NOT YELLING!!!" :) )

You guys bring up a good point, though.  Should one's standing throughout a tournament be available upon demand?  Forbidden at all costs?  Or left open to the discretion of the host?  Anyone else have thoughts on this matter?

Offline Ken4Christ4ever

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Re: Posting Tournament Standings During/After Tournament
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 06:45:04 PM »
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I know at most tournaments I've attended, rankings are purposefully withheld during active play. Not sure why, but it's rare that I can ask halfway in and be told succinctly "you are currently in Xth place." Apparently it's some big secret, lol.

I like your idea with the second monitor, though. Technology, ftw.

Since I'm the host of most of these tournaments, I'll share the the main reason I no longer provide rankings during play is that people spent way too much time trying to figure out what they and others would need to get to achieve different end results. I have no problem with everyone knowing who is where, but these discussions weren't positive in nature.

In addition, now that I have a laptop that doesn't allow macros, I do everything by hand, so as soon as I've figured out the new pairings I want to move on with the next round. :)

I liked how Chris did it when he hosted Nationals in 2009 in CA. He copied and pasted the pairings and projected them for everyone to see. I'm not certain if we had to get our decks first or not (since I've never bothered checking in more than one deck). This solved the pairings/table issue easily, but did not specifically tell you your ranking or points.

 


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