Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: Jmbeers on August 27, 2011, 05:23:52 PM
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The Idea came from my Behemoth thread. Instead of a cross or a dragon Icon neutral characters would have their own symbol and may not be the only character on one side of the battle. That requirement to enter battle would not be printed on the cards but would be a know rule on how to play it. I have a few example ideas, please feel free to post any of your own character ideas here.
Name: War Horse
Type: Neutral Character, (5/1)
Identifier: May enter battle if owner has a king in battle
Brigade None
Verse: ...
Sa: First Strike. Partner may play an enhancement with strength 3/* or greater. Protect War Horse and Kings from Capture.
Name: Merchant
Type: Neutral Character, (1/3
Identifier: May enter battle if owner has a human in battle.
Brigade: None
Verse: ...
Sa: All drawing abilities in battle are doubled for remainder of battle but owner may not draw cards at beginning of next turn or through an artifact for two turns.
Name: Stubborn Donkey
Type: Neutral Character, (2/4)
Identifier: may enter battle if owner has a non-royal, non-warrior class character in battle.
Brigade: None
Verse: ...
Sa: All Characters are protected from withdraw abilities. The 3rd (plus) enhancement(s) played by Stubborn Donkey's partner Cannot be Negated. Cannot be Negated.
Name: Behemoth
Type: Neutral, beast (11/11)
Identifier: may enter battle if owner has a Genesis character in battle.
Brigade: None
Verse: JOB 40:15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
Sa: Both Behemoth and partner are Immune to all Characters except Giants and Giant Slayers. Immunity is negated if a weapon is in battle.
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I don't see why they all have banding abilities, and yet must be banded into battle.
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They can't enter battle alone because of their Nutral status. There (partner,) determine whether they are good or evil for the battle.
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They can't enter battle alone because of their Nutral status. There (partner,) determine whether they are good or evil for the battle.
yes but they can't use their banding abilities to get into battle, as they would already have to be in battle for the special abilities to activate.
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It would have to be an entirely new type of card that's ability activates in hand, and if you have the required character in battle, they can be added to battle.
LOVE the idea though, I don't see why we couldn't use another new type of card.
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Thanks for the support lightningninja 8)
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Right, but don't give them all banding abilities... Here's how I would do it...
Neutral Class
Characters in the neutral class must withdraw from battle if they are the only character on their side of the battle, and cannot rescue a lost soul.
I'm fairly certain there aren't any characters that don't specify "evil character" or "Hero", so this way they may begin a battle and band to somebody who can rescue souls. Thus, it makes it easier if they band to their companion, although less accurate in some ways.
:2cents:
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It would have to be something like this...
New Symbol type of card
Numbers (if any)
Identifer = Your King
SA: First Strike. Your king may play an enhancement with strength 3/* or greater. Protect War Horse and Kings from Capture.
Something like that.
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If the ability helped a good king more than an evil king it wouldnt be a neutral character
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Woops, edited.
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I really like this idea, but I think that instead of just giving them all band abilities, there should be some sort of identifier on them that allows them to enter battle if you have a certain other character in battle. Other than that, 8).
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I really like this idea, but I think that instead of just giving them all band abilities, there should be some sort of identifier on them that allows them to enter battle if you have a certain other character in battle. Other than that, 8).
Like exactly what I put? Haha
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For the behemoth I'd say not immune if a spear or a picture of a spear is in battle rather than weapon
I think the donkey could see some play
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Edit*
Banding abilities replaced with identifiers.
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Love the idea. Pretty neutral. Doesnt help.any peticular strats cuz pretty much any hero or ec had a robin behind the batman-ness.
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I'd do it this way:
War Horse
5/1 Neutral Character
-(King blocks or is blocked), Animal-
"Your characters have First Strike. Holder may play an Enhancement with strength 3 or greater. Protect your characters in battle from Capture."
~Same as Two Thousand Horses
Merchant
1/3 Neutral Character
-(Human), Human, Generic-
"Holder may skip his next draw phase to cause players to draw a card for every card they draw because of another ability."
~Same as Marketplace
Stubborn Donkey
2/4 Neutral Character
-(Non-Royal, Non-Warrior-class), Animal-
"Protect characters from withdraw. All enhancements holder plays this battle after the second Cannot be Negated."
~Same as Balaam
Behemoth
11/11 Neutral Character
-(Genesis), Animal-
"Your characters in battle are Immune to all Characters except Giants and Giant Slayers unless a weapon is in battle."
~Job 40:15
Some small changes, but much more concise and basically what you were saying. The parenthetical identifiers denote how the character enters battle. The rule would be that neutral characters have no access to Lost Souls and withdraw from battle if all characters on their side of battle are Neutral.
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Being able to skip a draw phase is a bad thing. It's an easy way to have the best defense in the world--not drawing souls--and is easily broken. I'll think of a way to do it if you really need me to...
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Merchant
1/3 Neutral Character
-(Human), Human, Generic-
"Holder may skip his next draw phase to draw a card for every card drawn this battle."
~Same as Marketplace
I would still keep the clause about the artifact for gifts of the magi and the one that let's you draw 4 when discarded.
Those were what I was thinking of anyways when I wrote the abilities.
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I was thinking, if only a neutral character is left in battle they shouldn't withdraw. The Block/Rescue attempt should still fail but the battle would still continue in order to give opponents of neutral characters an opportunity to discard the character. With them Widthdrawing they would be very hard to actually get ride of because most cards specify (good/evil) character to target an ability.
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If neutral characters didn't withdraw, I don't know if I'd ever use them, since my opponent could just block with a low guy, CM or UW the main hero, and then do a bunch of nasty stuff to me, knowing I can't retaliate.
Also, I think Merchant needs a change, because as of now, if you play Mayhem during a battle with Merchant, your opponent gets to draw 6 while you draw up to 16. Also, can he draw from his own draw? Looks to me like all you'd have to do is draw one card and you could perpetuate it until you have 16.
And Behemoth should be an animal, shouldn't he?
Other than that, I love the concept and I love all the cards. I'll try to think of more card ideas.
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Merchant affects (ALL) drawing abilities, not just your own.
With merchant you can control when drawing is doubled but you then suffer a drawing penalty that your opponent doesn't.
If merchant helped a block and your opponent played reach of desperation they would be allowed to draw 6.
Mayhem would make both players draw 12.
As for the withdraw, it's just an idea, and I want to see how others feel about it
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But you can skip the draw phase with Merchant. Every turn. Then drop a Death of Unrighteous and wait until your opponent has nothing left.
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(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg436%2Fjmbeers%2FWarH-1.jpg&hash=a57dd21030ba196b4d1637b7370076c5466da20c)
I'll start on donkey and Behemoth but wait on Merchant until there is a better idea for the ability.
And I know they look rough. I don’t have a photo editor and am doing it on some online program.
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(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg436%2Fjmbeers%2FSMule.jpg&hash=8473a3820acb3fce31c877bea335547397c87823)
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(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg436%2Fjmbeers%2FBehemoth.jpg&hash=10848583a41fe45f674f5e1c472fd5c970c6b5e4)
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Merchant affects (ALL) drawing abilities, not just your own.
With merchant you can control when drawing is doubled but you then suffer a drawing penalty that your opponent doesn't.
If merchant helped a block and your opponent played reach of desperation they would be allowed to draw 6.
Mayhem would make both players draw 12.
My comments on Merchant were in response to Polarius' version of the card.
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I like this Jerome! It helps everyone!
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Aw, man. I was the first one to think of this idea... :'( I first thought of it when I was trying to think of an Idea for a Coliseum Lions character (that couldn't block without another EC in battle) Then I thought that it would be nice to make others that would be able to work with both heroes and ECs, like the new Leviathan I'm working on.
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I actually think a lot of people have thought of stuff like this before. :P
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Yeah, I meant "first one to post this idea"
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Behemoth Picture
This card is way too good I think. Love the others though. Super awesome.
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But you can skip the draw phase with Merchant. Every turn. Then drop a Death of Unrighteous and wait until your opponent has nothing left.
What would DoU do? Do you mean Sin in the Camp?
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No, he meant DOU. Shuffle all your ls, then make it so that you can't draw cards. You've locked your opponent out of getting any ls, unless they can generate one via Harvest Time, Hopper ls, etc.
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Duh, thanks.
The mind's not been workin' that good lately :P
SitC wouldn't be that bad of an idea though...
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No, he meant DOU. Shuffle all your ls, then make it so that you can't draw cards. You've locked your opponent out of getting any ls, unless they can generate one via Harvest Time, Hopper ls, etc.
Nazareth takes care of HT. Hopper isn't even in a lot of decks now.
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Behemoth Picture
This card is way too good I think. Love the others though. Super awesome.
I don't know, there are several giants in different brigades and a wepon dosen't need to be held by a warrior to be in battle.
What if it said an enhancement with a wepon depicted? (but I think it is unnecessary)
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Depicted would be better. And yes there are giants... but when's the last time you saw a good player with Lahmi or Ishbibenob or Saph in their deck? Never, that's when. ;)
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Well, it's true you're not drawing any LS's, but you're not drawing anything else, either. When your opponent gets Hopper, Revealer, King Amazing+Jehoash, Hosea, Canaan, etc. then he will probably win it easily since he's been drawing every turn while you've been intentionally skipping your draw phase.
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Well, it's true you're not drawing any LS's, but you're not drawing anything else, either. When your opponent gets Hopper, Revealer, King Amazing+Jehoash, Hosea, Canaan, etc. then he will probably win it easily since he's been drawing every turn while you've been intentionally skipping your draw phase.
Obviously, your deck would be designed to counter these. Blue Tassels and Jerusalem Tower would kill everything but the Hopper. In T2, it's even easier.
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FbtN LS counters the Hopper.
Wait...
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i'm really liking this idea, JMBeers. Keep up the good work. Love the card art too.
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You're also assuming you can keep Merchants alive indefinitely. Without the ability to play Enhancements, he is quite vulnerable sitting in the field of battle.
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I also think (to make the characters more “targetable”) in battle the neutral character can be targeted as good or evil for the battle based on where they are in the field.
Say Merchant is assisting Belshazzar and he plays Belshazzar’s Banquet, both Belshazzar AND Merchant would be discarded.
All neutral characters would be considered neutral in anywhere except the field of battle.
So if a neutral character was assisting a block the neutral character could be converted and would no longer be assisting the evil character but after the battle they would return to their territory as a neutral character, not a Hero.
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What would that mean spiritually then?
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What would that mean spiritually then?
That they are using objects that have no souls? I don't see any kind of Biblical conflict with these cards.
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Even the merchant dosen't have a soul in the sense that you don't have to be a Christian to buy and sell goods, but if you are a Christian you are allowed to buy and sell goods as well.
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What would that mean spiritually then?
That they are using objects that have no souls? I don't see any kind of Biblical conflict with these cards.
I wasn't saying that there was biblical conflict I was just saying, if Paul converts the merchant who on his very next turn chooses to try and thwart Paul again, that's kinda wierd...
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I agree with neutral characters being targetable as good/evil each battle, but disagree with them returning to neutral if converted. I think if they are converted to a hero/EC in battle, they should lose their neutrality and any other properties that apply.
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I agree with neutral characters being targetable as good/evil each battle, but disagree with them returning to neutral if converted. I think if they are converted to a hero/EC in battle, they should lose their neutrality and any other properties that apply.
Hearing that makes the neutral cards sound like an actual card class.
I support this ruling definition.
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My horse is definitely more Christian than your horse.
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The Living Dead
Class: Neutral
Verse: Revelation 20:13... And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Abilities: 0/0
Special ability: Strength and Toughness have no affect on this character once it is in play. Battles involving this character cannot be determined by the numbers. While this character is in battle, no lost soul maybe rescued. Discard this card if Son of God is played. Cannot be negated.
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That's not Biblical at all. They not literally "alive" like Zombies, it means their spirits are judged by God.
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That's not Biblical at all. They not literally "alive" like Zombies, it means their spirits are judged by God.
So Death and Hades reducing your hand by 1 is biblical... seriously chill
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That's not Biblical at all. They not literally "alive" like Zombies, it means their spirits are judged by God.
So Death and Hades reducing your hand by 1 is biblical... seriously chill
I wasn't attacking you as a person. :) Just pointing out that a card called "The living dead" would never be made.
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Find a more appropriate name and I'll run with it... The Judged Dead?
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Find a more appropriate name and I'll run with it... The Judged Dead?
That could work. Just don't make it sound zombie-like. :)
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My horse is definitely more Christian than your horse.
Well, you cant't convert non-humans so...
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Matthew 27:53 gf zombie haters.
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Matthew 27:53 gf zombie haters.
That's what I'm saying.... I think its a unique concept and have wanted to do it for quite some time. Back at Creation Fest Northwest (I think the 1st one) I met one of the game designers (can't remember his name) He had worked for D&D and then had come to Cactus Game Design and was heading up the display booth. He said if I could find a biblical verse(s) to back it up he would consider it. Just never followed up with it... Does anyone know who he was? I think his name was Brian (probably not tho)
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Well there is someone named Bryon Hake, but I doubt that's who you met. Could have been though, he's responsible for the majority of the cards I believe.
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Well there is someone named Bryon Hake, but I doubt that's who you met. Could have been though, he's responsible for the majority of the cards I believe.
How long has he been with the company?
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A very long time. Since about... g/h I believe he's been the #1 card creator, possibly well before then. In fact, yeah I think a lot before then.
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A very long time. Since about... g/h I believe he's been the #1 card creator, possibly well before then. In fact, yeah I think a lot before then.
I met the gentlemen back when the Womens Expansion came out. This was also back around the time Audio Adrenaline came out with "Some Kind of Zombie" :) Dates me a bit! LOL
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Yeah, could have been. :)
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Valley of dry bones. Nuff said.
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Valley of dry bones. Nuff said.
VoDB was a great card back in the day.
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Zombie armies are now biblical. Your argument is invalid.
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Zombie armies are now biblical. Your argument is invalid.
My arguement was that they are =)
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I like this idea! But my Definition for non-Warrior Class (and non-Territory Class/Weapon Class) is titled Classless. It makes it easier than saying non-Warrior Class etc.