Cactus Game Design Message Boards

So tonight I thought up an idea for Goliath that is not only accurate, but fun.

Goliath: Black 10/10 WC: "When blocking, holder may withdraw all evil characters but Goliath from battle to force the opponent to withdraw all but one hero from battle, unless david is in battle."

Its accurate because Goliath fights alone, and the opponent gets to pick their "mightiest warrior"

I think its good for the game because its not an instant win card, but it can be very strong if used right. However it has the potential to backfire, which balances it out. Also, its optional so you can still use him in banding chains.

Im debating throwing CBP or CBN on the end, but idk if that would make it too strong. I'll make the card eventually, but I cant do it tonight, so I'm posting it here for feedback until then.

So... thoughts?

yup def want this

Instead of saying "unless David is in battle," I would say "Cannot be Negated if David is in battle.

I think you should add that he cannot be ignored, Goliath certainly was not able to be ignored.  It would also make him a useful counter to pre-block ignore.

isnt it basically a neutered 12fg?

Nope. This Goliath is better, since he forces heroes brought in by CBN bands (Gathering, TGT ladies, etc.) to withdraw. Also, it says "may" so that he could be added on to the Giant banding chain (and Saph/Lahmi/Ishbibenob may find their way back into most Philistine decks).

I think I like it as Lambo suggested. Making him unignorable would be a bit much, though it would be accurate.

Instead of "in play," maybe "in territory" would be less OP. I probably went a little overboard with my idea, but I mean seriously, Goliath is like the most well-known Biblical character. We have to make him pretty good. Also, remember that he isn't generic, so no PO recursion for him.

Wow, duh, lol.

personally, i'll take a card that can stop 99% of banding chains out there without a chance at being negated in favor of one that only stops 2 additional exceptions and can be negated. 12fg is the ultimate anti-band, and probably will be for years to come.

I'd take both. Philistines thrive on stopping banding, because they have big numbers and black has lots of negates. This Goliath complements the strategy, and adds an additional measure of usefulness without being overpowered (read: CBN). Perhaps I was too quick to suggest he is better, but the benefits he adds certainly make him unique and useful, and not a neutered TFG.

I would add CBP. FBTN+Gathering should not stop Goliath.

Why not? Black already has plenty of weapons against FBTN, and Philistines are plenty strong.

I'd also add Can't be ignored.

Considering Philistines already has one of the best counters to TGT in Outpost (at least in my experience), I don't know if they should get one of the CBIg characters that is most likely coming in the next set.

12fg should have been printed as goliath, imo.

Yay, a fan!

"Goliath cannot be ignored while he remains in play. You may return all other characters in battle to their owners' territories but then must allow opponent to choose a new rescuer. Prevent banding abilities. Cannot be interrupted by a good card."

I dont like this one as much... because they get to redo their entire RA basicly, wheras with mine, they are forced to pick one from ONLY the heroes in battle. The version above would be useless because if they didnt RA with ET, they could then pick ET and play AoCP before you do anything. I don't want them to reactivate their SA's after I've blocked.

I do however like the cannot be ignored idea, and I may put CBP on there.

Prof, you can only use Outpost once each time you are attacked. Otherwise it'd be broken.

This is true; the "other prof's" reason is slightly incorrect. The real reason PO can dominate TGT is that all you ever need to have in your territory is two black characters. Consider the following:

There are a few main ways that people who use TGT get rid of the EC's in your territory. These are:

-Holy Grail--Your opponent can only convert one of your guys on a turn. If they do so, they attack with a TGT hero, you use PO to get out another guy, and you can block.

-Jephthah--Now your opponent can get rid of both of the Phillies in a territory. Oh snap. But wait, Jephthah is not a TGT hero. So you use PO to get out another guy, and you can block.

-ET/AoC--Same case as Jephthah. The nice thing is, no self-respecting TGT deck has any purple or red enhancements besides AoC (and maybe reach). So when you block one of these guys, you almost always win the battle. And with PO/Armorbearer any Philistine is recurrable if you can afford the cost.

-Women as Snares--This one can be a bit tricky, you just have to watch what you do when you attack. If you use Lot's Wife, you can still ensure that you'll have at least one black EC in your territory, and PO can provide the second.

I have a Philistine deck that went 8-1 vs. TGT decks, with the one loss being a one-turn difference that would have gone the other way had I made a slightly better play. PO is one of the best TGT counters in the game, and is just awesome in general.