Author Topic: Sadducees  (Read 5492 times)

Offline Gabe

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Sadducees
« on: January 08, 2009, 09:41:19 AM »
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I'm looking for advice and recommendations to improve this Sadducee defense.  It's a little bloated right now so it would be nice to trim it down.  I'm including the Lost Souls because I feel they play an important part of any defense.

If you recommend adding a card please let me know what you'd cut and why you think the card your adding is more helpful.

Thanks a bunch for your advice!

Artifacts/Curses 7
Asherah Pole
Crown of Thorns
Golden Calf
Unholy Writ
Urim and Thummim
Besieged
Unknown Nation

Fortresses/Sites 2
High Priest's Palace
Herod's Temple

Lost Souls 7
Lost Soul (can't be prevented)
Lost Soul (color guard)
Lost Soul (female only)
Lost Soul (N.T. only)
Lost Soul (shuffler)
Lost Soul (site doubler)
Lost Souls (2-line)

Evil Characters 10
High Priest Ananias
High Priest Caiaphas
Captain of the Temple Guard
High Priest Annas
Temple Guard
Alexander
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees

Evil Enhancements 10
Lying Unto God
Just a Hireling
Intent to Kill
High Priest's Plot
Pride of Simon
Devourer
False Witness
Net
Joseph in Prison
Wrath of Satan
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Offline Isildur

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2009, 09:59:44 AM »
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Id take out besieged, Unkown Nation, Crown of Thorns and Herods Temple. These mostly cause you have to trim something down and when you are using a black defense like that you will be bound to lose some characters and you will need all the defense you can get. Herods Temple only because it is a non negate for one rescue attempt when using net and you need to have all 3 cards out for it to work which even in a 56 card deck is unlikely.
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Offline soul seeker

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2009, 11:54:13 AM »
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I don't know why I'm helping the mighty Gabe, but at least I'll give my take.

I think you can do without:
   beseiged:  good for banders but wool fleece is pretty rare and temples are hit and miss
   UN:   you have a sadd. that can already search, they band well so can easily get around AoTL... I suggest this because of the amount of arts/curses that you have, and I don't think it will see too much activation. finally:  color guard and HPpalace should help with AoCp
   If Herod's temple is not purple then it's not needed...if so then I can see why. (I'm just not familiar with it)
   personally, I don't like capture cards w/out raider's camp for 2 reasons:
                 1. they produce lost souls
                 2. capture is pretty easy to avoid these days
     so my suggestion would be to take at least one capture out, maybe 2 if you consider my future suggestion of "pushed back".
   I'm not a fan of Alexander, but I've never drawn a NT evil card with him yet, and I have buried SoG with him.
 
   I have had success with "Pushed Back" so you may want to consider that (if you get rid of both captures)
      That will bring you to:
              5 in Art pile
              2 fort/site if herod temple is purple
             9 ECs
             9 EE
Not a major cut, but it gets you closer to your goal and gives you something to think about....
...BUT what do I know...I'm just a noob
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2009, 12:25:27 PM »
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Take out:

Evil Characters 10
High Priest Ananias
High Priest Caiaphas
Captain of the Temple Guard
High Priest Annas
Temple Guard
Alexander
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees
Sadducees

Evil Enhancements 10
Lying Unto God
Just a Hireling
Intent to Kill
High Priest's Plot
Pride of Simon
Devourer
False Witness
Net
Joseph in Prison
Wrath of Satan

Add in:

Evil Characters 4
Damsel with Spirit of Divination
Manasseh
Shemaiah
Bera, King of Sodom

Evil Enhancements 5
Poison (L/UL)
Goat with Horn
Ephah (C/D)
Three Crosses
Sun Worship (C/D)

That should make it slightly less bloated.   ;D


In all seriousness, I like SS's ideas.  In addition, Malchus works well with Just a Hireling.  False Witness is overkill since you have Pride of Simon to recur Net.  I see the purpose of Herod's Temple, and I know you're trying to cut back, but Hormah works well especially in combination with Doctrine of Leaven.


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SoulSaver

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2009, 01:11:27 PM »
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This has heroless written all over it! I love it! If I were you I might try to add HHI, maybe.

Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 01:39:59 PM »
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How big is the deck first off? 

Where is Simon the Magician?  He should be put it in place of Temple Guard, Alexander, or one of the generic Sadducees.  I know you want to have alot of Sadducee evil characters in this deck, but Simon is a must for any black defense hands down.

I question if U+T is necessary.  You can play High Priest's Plot twice with Pride of Simon, and usually I found that I don't really need to see my opponent's hand more than that in a game with a defense like this.

If you are most concerned with cutting down the size of the defense, I think you can get by with three less cards than you have in there.  Therefore I would toss U+T, False Witnesses as that is your weakest enhancement, and your choice between Temple Guard and Alexander as they are the two weakest evil characters in the deck.  If you want to leave the deck at the size that it is, I would put in HHI like Daniel suggested in place or your unneeded U+T and I would just leave the other two cards alone.

Kirk
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 01:42:17 PM by Captain Kirk »
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 03:27:31 PM »
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dude if your using a sadducee defence then why do you throw in simon the magician? he cant band

His enhancements cannot be negated against NT heroes.  Therefore, when you activate Asherah Pole and Simon the Magician, all your evil enhancements cannot be negated.  Sounds like a good deal to me.

Kirk
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Offline amelo

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 03:30:56 PM »
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Yeah, that's an awesome combo. Tough to get around
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 03:57:39 PM »
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Thanks everyone for the input so far. 

I want to take a moment to explain the purposes of Herod's Temple.  It's purple, so when combined with the color guard it offers protection from AoCp (in case I don't have Hight Priest's Palace yet).  It also give my two capture Enhancements "can't be negated" when played on Captain of the Temple Guard.  So that's why it's in there.  As other's have noted, maybe some (or all) of the capture should go, same with Captain of the Temple Guard leaving Herod's Temple a lot less valuable.  It might have been overkill in the first place.

I probably agree with those that said Beseiged can go.  The unnegatable banding is nice vs FBTN and I like the ability to discard a Fortress but it's mostly a luxury I can do without.

I'm surprised at how many people dislike Alexander.  I like him because I'm a junkie for adding extra cards to my hand.  There are 20 cards in the original defense that he can grab (including Dominants).  Maybe I just haven't played with him enough to see his true colors. 

@ Scott.  I tried the defense you proposed and lost to my 6 year old cousin.  Thanks a lot! ;D  Malchius and Just a Hireling have synergy but it costs me 2 evil Characters for 1 stop (since Malchius isn't a Sadducee) and that's a high price to pay.  The thought of using Hormah with Doctrine Like Leaven (on one of the big Sadducees) is really cruel.  I like it.  :laugh:

HHI is a good call provided it doesn't shut down my offense.

Simon the Magician should definately be in here.  How did I overlook him? ::) Out with a Sadducee, in with the Magician.  The annoyance factor of U&T almost makes it worth while by itself, not to mention how it can help you choose the right combo to use on offense to win a soul.  I'd really hate to it go but you might be right, I do question whether or not it's absolutely necessary.

Hmmm, Lot's Wife.  She'd be good for borrowing my opponent's defense but I don't know if she'd help mine very much.

Great advice.  Thanks!
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Offline galadgawyn

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 11:41:27 PM »
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If you take out Herod's Temple and Besieged then I think this defense might be vulnerable to a strong BTN offense.  It still surprises me how effective those continue to be.  So if you take those out then I would try to add at least one other counter to them.  Maybe the black curse that works with discards?

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2009, 09:29:59 PM »
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2009, 09:54:54 PM »
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dude if your using a sadducee defence then why do you throw in simon the magician? he cant band

His enhancements cannot be negated against NT heroes.  Therefore, when you activate Asherah Pole and Simon the Magician, all your evil enhancements cannot be negated.  Sounds like a good deal to me.

Kirk
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I think you should keep Urim & thummim. Keeping the "suprises" from showing up is very helpfull. I'd also take out one of your sadducees to put in Simon the Magician. Come one, he's freaking awesome!  ;D
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Offline Tsavong Lah

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Re: Sadducees
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2009, 09:23:32 PM »
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Have you looked at switching things up and playing with four generic Pharisees and a Lying Spirit? Add Momentum Change and Twice Afflicted to play Just a Hireling a lot, and add Balaam's Disobedience and maybe a Night Raid to fill things out, and you have a quirky but potentially devastating defense.

Hmm. I think I'll try this out. ;)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 12:20:48 AM by Tsavong Lah »
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