Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 2 Deck Advice => Topic started by: BubbleBoy on February 12, 2011, 11:18:32 AM
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105 cards:
Good: 42
Asher
Benjamin x3
Eve
Jacob x2
Leah
Levi x2
Rebekah
Simeon x2
Zebulun x2
Abraham's Descendant x3
Abraham’s Servant to Ur x3
Answer to Prayer x2
Cup of Wrath x2
Jacob Buries the Foreign Gods x2
Journey to Egypt x2
Obedience of Noah x2
Reuben's Torn Clothes x2
Captain of the Host x2
Seraph
Goshen
Wall of Protection
Angel of the Lord (OT for SPaB)
Grapes of Wrath
New Jerusalem
Son of God
Evil: 42
Assyrian Archer x5
King Jehoiakin x3
King Sargon II x2
King Sennacherib
The Rabsaris
The Rabshakeh x2
The Tartan
Achan's Sin x4
Confusion x3
Death of Unrighteous x3
Forgotten History x4
Two Thousand Horses x4
The Rabshakeh’s Threats x2
Assyrian Camp x2
Burial
Christian Martyr
Destruction of Nehushtan
Falling Away
Mayhem
Neutral: 21
Assyria's Tribute
Stone Pillar at Bethel
Unholy Writ x2
Promised Land
Hopper x2
Female x2
Cannot be Prevented x2
Exchanger x2
Shut Door x2
Anti-Burial x2
Revealer x2
FBTN x2
I know these aren't very good themes to begin with, but I think the deck overall looks not too bad. I appreciate all constructive advice. Thanks. :)
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You need a way to kill Caesarea Philippi and Herods Temple.
You need to also kill opponents weapons for ToD.
Seems like the offence needs more power that purple alone just doesnt have especially preDisciple
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You need a way to kill Caesarea Philippi and Herods Temple.
You need to also kill opponents weapons for ToD.
Seems like the offence needs more power that purple alone just doesnt have especially preDisciple
Yeah, that's what it seemed like to me, too. I like the defense, but the offense seems more like an extension of the defense than a soul-winner.
I think I'm going to switch to Genesis, so that when Laban comes out I can use him. I'll get going on hashing that out...
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You need Eve.
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Totally forgot she even existed. Thanks.
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Why the Sennacherib?
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Why the Sennacherib?
Anti-FBTN would be my guess.
Although I doubt anyone uses straight FBTN in T2, most people usually have some element of it so it's good to have ECs who will shut down those Heroes.
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I'm thinking now that maybe I should go like 119 with this. I just don't feel like I have enough room for everything I want. Waddaya guys think?
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nah, 105 is usually best. On offense you defenetly need some reubens (yes, even with Golgotha). Personally I think you should play with something else. Genesis just doesn't pack a punch do to its lack of CBN cards and virtually no protection, and Assyrians are one of the Weaker cultures.
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nah, 105 is usually best. On offense you defenetly need some reubens (yes, even with Golgotha).
Those two statements don't seem to go very well together, but I'll do my best.
Personally I think you should play with something else. Genesis just doesn't pack a punch do to its lack of CBN cards and virtually no protection
Benjamin pretty much covers CBN (I might want more of him), and while I may not have any in-battle protection besides Reuben, I do have Goshen...
and Assyrians are one of the Weaker cultures.
I think the Assyrian Archer x5 + 2KH x5 + Confusion x4 + Forgotten History combo is still worth setting up. ...I don't actually have it set up here, but I have a reduced version of it (reduced mainly due to lack of space). Actually though, I think I do want to magnify that combo a bit.
EDIT: Deck updated. I think it actually looks significantly better.
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And dont forget that when you kill a hero with Assyrian Archer and then d2 and play Forgotten History that your archer stays alive. doesnt sound weak to me...
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I think the Assyrian Archer x5 + 2KH x5 + Confusion x4 + Forgotten History combo is still worth setting up. ...I don't actually have it set up here, but I have a reduced version of it (reduced mainly due to lack of space). Actually though, I think I do want to magnify that combo a bit.
My favorite part is going to be when you go for a rescue, and I play Seven Wicked Spirits exchange for my own Gomer (Wo), user her SA to band in all of your Assyrian Archers and one other guy, kill five of your heroes in territory, play four nasty wicked enhancements, and then end with Belshazzar's Banquet to discard most of your defense and protect my lost souls from rescue. Good times, good times.
;)
Other than that, it looks pretty good. :thumbup:
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Unfortunately for you though, all my heroes are in Goshen and are protected from effect, while half of your heroes have already been discarded. You'll be the laughingstock of the young people.
Something that seriously might dim that destruction though would be replacing at least one of my Rabsarisesises with other Assyrian kings or something, so that not quite such a large percentage of my defense can be brought in at a time. I don't like those guys that much anyway, but I thought they might help the combo.
Also, I had this strange feeling that there was some PG combo that let me recur EE's with Golgotha, but I can't think of it...
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I think the Assyrian Archer x5 + 2KH x5 + Confusion x4 + Forgotten History combo is still worth setting up. ...I don't actually have it set up here, but I have a reduced version of it (reduced mainly due to lack of space). Actually though, I think I do want to magnify that combo a bit.
My favorite part is going to be when you go for a rescue, and I play Seven Wicked Spirits exchange for my own Gomer (Wo), user her SA to band in all of your Assyrian Archers and one other guy, kill five of your heroes in territory, play four nasty wicked enhancements, and then end with Belshazzar's Banquet to discard most of your defense and protect my lost souls from rescue. Good times, good times.
;)
Other than that, it looks pretty good. :thumbup:
or you go out 3 times, draw 10, play 4, and play forgotten history, gaining an experience credit of 21/21.
All we need is a FBTN card for PG and we are in business.
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I think everyone is forgetting that there are so many ways nowadays to get rid of weapons. The assyrians withought their weapons are in trouble. And besides, what person in their right mind attacks a defense with 4 horses out and no way to win?
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I think everyone is forgetting that there are so many ways nowadays to get rid of weapons. The assyrians withought their weapons are in trouble. And besides, what person in their right mind attacks a defense with 4 horses out and no way to win?
These things are all true. Maybe a couple less Forgotten Histories (and Confusions) and a couple more Achan's Sins and Threats would be safer.
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3x confusions seems about right. All you really need to hit is sog or nj.
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I think I really want to hit Burial as well. Angel is a pain. In fact, almost every dominant would be nice to hit. I don't know if I want to get rid of more than one Confusion now that I think about it.
Do I need any Words of Discouragement as well?
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Yeah and while your at it add some SiTC... oh wait they nerfed that. :-*
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Add Cup of Wrath to nuke their heroes with the Archers in a side battle.
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Add Cup of Wrath to nuke their heroes with the Archers in a side battle.
Oh yeah totally! But what should I take out to keep it at 105? Or should I knock it up to 112?
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Jerusalem's Tower should come out for sure.
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Edited. Better? I hope so...
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Yeah and while your add it add some SiTC... oh wait they nerfed that. :-*
ouch- it still hurts...
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I can't think of a reason to use Numerous as the Stars over Answer to Prayer in this deck. Add another one of those and take out Numerous.
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Yeah, you're right...I guess I was thinking Answer to Prayer was only enhancements while Numerous was characters, but if Answer can do characters as well, then the only real upside to Numerous is that it's reusable. However, if it's not even as good a card, then I guess I don't want to use it again anyway. Soon to be edited...
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Asher can always recur it. Numerous is sometimes better for Ira, but seeing as you have all Genesis...
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Zebulun seems like he should be in here too. Probably another Captain also. Maybe even I am Holy.
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I would also take out both CoN and put in Abes descendents 2x, you need more weapon killers. I am grace is also something to consider.
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After realizing what a few cards did that I didn't realize they did before, I updated this deck pretty significantly. A good lookover from a fresh perspective would be much appreciated. (*Ahem* Gabe...)
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Unfortunately for you though, all my heroes are in Goshen and are protected from effect, while half of your heroes have already been discarded. You'll be the laughingstock of the young people.
Unfortunately for you, SWS interrupts Goshen's SA, making your heroes eminently killable when the Archers decide to sacrifice themselves. ;)
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Unfortunately for you though, all my heroes are in Goshen and are protected from effect, while half of your heroes have already been discarded. You'll be the laughingstock of the young people.
Unfortunately for you, SWS interrupts Goshen's SA, making your heroes eminently killable when the Archers decide to sacrifice themselves. ;)
Unfortunately for you, I will RA with Eve, who ignores female ECs, making you unable to band to me in the first place.
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Unfortunately for you though, all my heroes are in Goshen and are protected from effect, while half of your heroes have already been discarded. You'll be the laughingstock of the young people.
Unfortunately for you, SWS interrupts Goshen's SA, making your heroes eminently killable when the Archers decide to sacrifice themselves. ;)
Unfortunately for you, I will RA with Eve, who ignores female ECs, making you unable to band to me in the first place.
Unfortunately for you, I have Golgotha up so I load a crimson card and proceed to decimate both your offense and defense.
Oh, that's right with only Levi x 2 and a single Journey to Egypt, you won't have access to any of my lost souls--so you will never be able to make an RA anyway.
Seriously though, banding-based play-first defenses should be wary if SWS is out.
Now on to specifics about the deck (all of these are IMO, of course):
While Hobbits' concerns about there being so many ways to discard weapons is legitimate there are only so many things you can worry about. (In the same vein, it is worth noting that a stray Salome is going to cause your defense major issues.) The ITB enhancements help counter this somewhat.
You also need to think about adding more site access. Jacob's Dream would be a nice choice and would fit into your theme beautifully. I am afraid the only thing you can afford to swap out for it is Cup of Wrath, however, and I know you would strongly prefer to keep that. The remainder of your enhancements are either battle winners (OoN/RTC) or must-haves (Jacob Buries...), and you are running rather lean on neutrals.
Adding a couple of Golgotha would make your Abraham's Descendents so much (like 10x) better.
Even with two exchangers, you may want to reconsider the NT only LS. You have absolutely no way to rescue them, so they may end up helping your opponents more than they help you.
*edit - sorry, tried to reply and modified your post instead. :P
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While Hobbits' concerns about there being so many ways to discard weapons is legitimate there are only so many things you can worry about. (In the same vein, it is worth noting that a stray Salome is going to cause your defense major issues.) The ITB enhancements help counter this somewhat.
Maybe 4 2KH is enough?
You also need to think about adding more site access. Jacob's Dream would be a nice choice and would fit into your theme beautifully. I am afraid the only thing you can afford to swap out for it is Cup of Wrath, however, and I know you would strongly prefer to keep that. The remainder of your enhancements are either battle winners (OoN/RTC) or must-haves (Jacob Buries...), and you are running rather lean on neutrals.
I didn't put Jacob's Dream in because I figured any respectable site deck would have CP in it. I also don't want to use many Jouneys, because they are useless unless I'm up against sites. However, Levi is kind of nice even without site - for banding and for territory destruction - so I would be willing to add one more of him.
Adding a couple of Golgotha would make your Abraham's Descendents so much (like 10x) better.
AD's are now my only good negating cards (besides Servant) so I think I want to use them for that purpose. If Golgotha helped my defense also...
Even with two exchangers, you may want to reconsider the NT only LS. You have absolutely no way to rescue them, so they may end up helping your opponents more than they help you.
What would I replace them with?
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You also need to think about adding more site access.
I didn't put Jacob's Dream in because I figured any respectable site deck would have CP in it.
CP would only protect the NT sites, but you are right about pure site decks probably being tailored around it. I am not worried about them so much as I am with people who splash in sites defensively--Nazareth, Golgotha, Kir, etc. Maybe it's not that big of a concern (or maybe absolutely everybody has CP even in this case)--once again you can't prepare for everything.
Adding a couple of Golgotha would make your Abraham's Descendents so much (like 10x) better.
AD's are now my only good negating cards (besides Servant) so I think I want to use them for that purpose. If Golgotha helped my defense also...
Other than allowing you to recur evil enhancements, you mean? There is also the (possibly slight) problem that the deck has little to counter pre-block ignore, which Golgotha would help somewhat.
What would I replace them with?
I would replace the NT only for the Anti-Ignore (or if you decided to add Golgotha the Site Searcher), You might also want to get rid of the Three-liners. My experience with either of the Souls cards in T2 is that they just concentrate LS for my opponents what with rescuers choice and all. It seems every time I really need to ditch a half-rescued souls in T2, I never get the card I need to shuffle or discard it.
All in all I think it's a very good deck; which is why I am only tinkering at the edges.
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AD's are now my only good negating cards (besides Servant) so I think I want to use them for that purpose. If Golgotha helped my defense also...
Other than allowing you to recur evil enhancements, you mean? There is also the (possibly slight) problem that the deck has little to counter pre-block ignore, which Golgotha would help somewhat.
The only way it would help at all is if I had NT ECs in there, and that would mean an enormous reconstruction of my defense. As is, having it would only replace EE negation with EE recursion, and I think I'd rather just have the former and then more space in my deck.
What would I replace them with?
I would replace the NT only for the Anti-Ignore (or if you decided to add Golgotha the Site Searcher), You might also want to get rid of the Three-liners. My experience with either of the Souls cards in T2 is that they just concentrate LS for my opponents what with rescuers choice and all. It seems every time I really need to ditch a half-rescued souls in T2, I never get the card I need to shuffle or discard it.
I did have a really bad game the other day against Gabe's nats-winning deck in which the same Zebulun rescued 7 souls and I only blocked once or twice the whole game. That's when I added the Jehoiakins and increased my DoU count. However, I think the anti-ignore LS would be a really bad idea if I ever want to use my own RTCs or Zebuluns, and I think I do. However, I might really need some way to at least stop SOME pre-block ignore, and since so many defs use Golgotha and stuff anyway, I'm thinking maybe it would actually be better to throw out my ignore stuff and put in those LS's...I dunno though, cuz the anti ignore souls pretty much only help against Genesis guys, who are not popular...so maybe things are good the way they are...?
I also am more and more starting to like the looks of this deck. I think only with extensive playtesting can I really tell what kind of fine-tuning I need to do to make it fit my playstyle and win some games.
Thanks so much for you input so far, Matt! :)
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Deck updated.
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Your deck has come along nicely over the past couple weeks. There aren't a lot of changes I'd make anymore, only a few.
I'd swap a Judah for one of the 3 Ben. He's helpful when one of your guys gets captured.
You're pretty heavy on the enhancements, both good and evil. Fourteen to sixteen is pretty normal.
I'd consider cutting a couple good enhancements to add Storehouse and a neutral card.
I'd consider cutting a few evil enhancements to add a a couple curses and a neutral card. I'd also use 5 of each for Horses and Forgotten History.
For evil, you might want to take out one of your three King Jehoiakin and one King Sargon II to add Prince of this World and King Tiglath Pileser III. Then for the Curses I mentioned above, you could add two Unknown Nation. Besides allowing you to block twice, if you get it early you can grab King Sargon II to search for Assyrian Camp. With that you could afford to go down to just 1, making room for a Kingdoms of this World.
In the neutral cards you might want to add Priestly Crown for site access, Chariot to get back your important Heroes and Lampstand because it's so good.
If you add Unknown Nation as I recommended above you could get away with using the Anti-Ignore Lost Soul. When it's needed you could keep just one brigade in territory. When you want to "turn it off" you could activate a non-pale green curse.
Hope there's some helpful tidbits there for you. I look forward to playing with you this weekend!
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I look forward to playing with you this weekend!
In the same sense that a cat enjoys playing with a mouse!
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In the same sense that a cat enjoys playing with a mouse!
You're next old friend. :)
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So, taking as much of Gabe's advice as I can, I come up with the following list:
Out:
Benjamin
Abraham’s Servant to Ur
Reuben’s Torn Clothes
King Jehoiakin
King Sargon II
The Rabshakeh
Achan’s Sin
Death of Unrighteous
FBTN LS x2
In:
Judah
Storehouse
King Tiglath Pileser III
Prince of this World
Unknown Nation x2
Chariot of Fire
Lampstand of the Sanctuary
Anti-Ignore LS x2
Does that look good?
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Nazzy stops UN! and Abe's Kid takes your 2kHorsies- bet you will see that alot this weekend, man you guys better get me some tourney reports.
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Nazzy stops UN! and Abe's Kid takes your 2kHorsies- bet you will see that alot this weekend, man you guys better get me some tourney reports.
Sorry... What happens in Minnesota, stays in Minnesota.
In the same sense that a cat enjoys playing with a mouse!
You're next old friend. :)
I was thinking precisely the same thing when I posted. This year I am hoping to rescue a lost soul against you.
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And hopefully that lost soul will be Que. :-*
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Nazzy stops UN! and Abe's Kid takes your 2kHorsies- bet you will see that alot this weekend, man you guys better get me some tourney reports.
Sorry... What happens in Minnesota, stays in Minnesota.
Hey, Im not kidding! I cant go so i better see some kind of action. 6 rounds of type 2- what, 36 people or so...
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Hey, Im not kidding! I cant go so i better see some kind of action. 6 rounds of type 2- what, 36 people or so...
I heard Red plans to provide coverage.
I was thinking precisely the same thing when I posted. This year I am hoping to rescue a lost soul against you.
I don't know anyone who gets worse draws against me than you do in 2P. I hope your luck changes and we have an epic game that goes down to the wire... and then I win. ;)
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I heard Red plans to provide coverage
I would much rather here it from someone who was there- another reason i will miss RDT not being there. He writes great tourney reports.
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Nazzy stops UN! and Abe's Kid takes your 2kHorsies- bet you will see that alot this weekend, man you guys better get me some tourney reports.
Yeah, that's why I didn't put UN in before, and also why I was leaning more towards Jehoiakin than horses.
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I can give a tournament report if by tournament report you mean pictures of whales I drew in MS paint.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww83%2FI_Am_Rawrlolsauce%2FWhale.png&hash=1733fcea43ce4ef5120474239a71aacf085e565f)
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Hey, Im not kidding! I cant go so i better see some kind of action. 6 rounds of type 2- what, 36 people or so...
I heard Red plans to provide coverage.
I was thinking precisely the same thing when I posted. This year I am hoping to rescue a lost soul against you.
I don't know anyone who gets worse draws against me than you do in 2P. I hope your luck changes and we have an epic game that goes down to the wire... and then I win. ;)
I'd provide coverage but I don't have a major contact. If someone PMs me updates I can, but don't expect many before 12:00 or so.
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I can give a tournament report if by tournament report you mean pictures of whales I drew in MS paint.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww83%2FI_Am_Rawrlolsauce%2FWhale.png&hash=1733fcea43ce4ef5120474239a71aacf085e565f)
With your mad skillz, it is difficult to believe you could be getting a C in anything no matter how bad the professor is.
I'd provide coverage but I don't have a major contact. If someone PMs me updates I can, but don't expect many before 12:00 or so.
SQF is in the hizzouse! You can find MN T2 Blowout updates by following SaveQue on Twitter.
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(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww83%2FI_Am_Rawrlolsauce%2FWhale-1.jpg&hash=8c2d075bf0ab2aedcaebeb453871c7045713a4f4)
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Rawrlolsauce!, are you on facebook? The Save Que Foundation would like to friend you.
Oh yeah, SQF is now on facebook.
You can also send the foundation e-mail at SaveQueFoundation at gmail dot com.
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Added. Also suggested to a ton of people. Including both of the Profs. Two elders is all we need, right?
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No.
Also, this whale is wearing a silly hat. It's funny because whales don't normally wear hats.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww83%2FI_Am_Rawrlolsauce%2Fwhale2.png&hash=f8ef535735b094cb6e75f4dc1bc47e5b81cc12f3)
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Nazzy stops UN! and Abe's Kid takes your 2kHorsies- bet you will see that alot this weekend, man you guys better get me some tourney reports.
Sorry... What happens in Minnesota, stays in Minnesota.
Hey, Im not kidding! I cant go so i better see some kind of action. 6 rounds of type 2- what, 36 people or so...
Lots of decks similar to G/H so far. Tons of Purple/White and Green/Gold on offense, it's pretty awesome. Also:
Flying Whale.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi708.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww83%2FI_Am_Rawrlolsauce%2FWhale3.png&hash=0a0c1fea70316c8784bb8a5ee76b75a7773988f8)
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I wish I could speak whale... ::)