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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Type 2 Deck Advice => Topic started by: Mr.Hiatus on August 14, 2013, 10:08:06 AM
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I thought this was a cool idea, I think something similar has been done in the past. After Nationals I always think or try new decks out, either ones that beat me, caught me off guard, or I thought was interesting, I would re build. I think if the Redemption community came together and gave ideas and inputs on a deck from scratch that it could be fun. Other players could read this thread and even if they do not play type 2, they could give input and learn. You can post here for ideas and people can all give inputs and start ill start building the deck and updating it as we go alone. Anything you think would be a good combo, some sort of lockout, or non stop offense, give some input and we can see how this works. I mostly want this started because I needed input on a deck I am working on.
I started a brown defense that strived off of side battles. It is supposed to be a recurrable combo that wipes out their characters. Uses lots of fortresses, gates of Samaria, threatened lives, Amon recursion etc. it is really good but I was looking at more side battle cards and heroes to use for them and ran across the Ezekiel cards. A deck consisting of Ezekiel, Forest Fire, Drawn Sword, Sword of The Lord, Search and crimson King Rehobaum with Babylonians seems like a very strong deck. Head of Gold to capture both offense and defense humans, and the Ezekiel cards to kill the rest.
So pretty much I was looking for input on a side battle Ezekiel deck and wanted to ask what would be detrimental to an opponent in a side battle, on both offense and defense, and be recurable? Anything you think can stop this, then please share.
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I think Pot of Manna is your main fear. That with Lampstand and Nazzy would shut you down. ;)
Joking aside, if you're using Babylonians, I think it would be fun to incorporate Arrogance so you can play it during a side battle to destroy their territory, and/or draw cards to play. It can make for an interesting combo with Mask of Worldliness and any evil enhancement but at that point I think you'd be at too many cards so perhaps just the Babylonian destruction will do with Axe, Desecrate the Temple, Head of Gold and the Ezekiel stuff. Just a thought that I've always wanted to try but haven't really gotten the motivation to do.
Also, remember that Ezekiel can't play side battle stuff off of Hidden Treasures so Jeremiah + Cup of Wrath could be a good add.
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I have wanted to make a Placer Priests deck with Ezekiel, Babylonians, and Crimson King Rehoboam ever since the new cards came out. That seems to align close with what you want to put together.
Combos in deck:
1. Solomon's Temple + Glory of the Lord + Book of the Law
Solomon's Temple protects your placer priests and kings of Judah, including Rehoboam. Glory makes ST CBN and protected from evil discard. Book of the Law protects your good enhancements from removal (much more valuable, now that Sing and Praise/Ashtaroth Worship are here) and is CBN/protected thanks to Glory. BotL also makes Agur and Jehoram able to "place".
2. Infiniblock - Gates of Jerusalem/Rehoboam/Placer Priest/Drawn Sword
They attack (probably best if you have HHI active), you block with King Rehoboam. He is CBN thanks to GoJ. Cause side-battle, make your placer character enter battle first. Place Drawn Sword from discard pile on a Green hero. Make the Green hero enter battle next; DS activates, allowing you to discard the attacking hero in the main battle. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
I figured that the combo could fit nicely into a deck that was primarily Babylonians and Kings of Judah/Solomon's Temple Priests. If you get the combo off, well, awesome. If you don't, you still have a competitive deck to work with.
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jmhartz and I brainstormed various ideas on how to use the deck he described. I made the deck and it is very potent. It's downfall is FBN characters (as they stop Agur/Jehoram from activating). So you also need HoH active to go along with BotL. That means no HHI so I use King Amon to recur Scattered each turn. Use the Rehoboam side battle + DS for lone heroes and Scattered recursion for bands. You have blocks all day long so your offense can be whatever you want. I also have a Gabriel/In the Clouds version too. Works great as well - My 09 version took 3rd.
Kirk
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What is Rehoboam+DS?
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What is Rehoboam+DS?
DS = Drawn Sword. At least, that's what I'm gleaning from jmhartz's post.
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You do a side battle and recur drawn sword for a battle winner they can't really negate.
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Hold up a second is there something I missed here or do you have to control both heroes in the side battle. The way I see it, you have to control your place to use his ability and then you have to control the green hero to use Drawn Sword, and you have to give one hero to your opponent to control. Did I miss anything?
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Placed cards are read from the perspective of the player who placed them, regardless of who controls the Hero they are on.
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How do both heroes in the side battle survive? Based on the characters you seem to be using the SB would always end with the "Placer" being discarded.
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How do both heroes in the side battle survive? Based on the characters you seem to be using the SB would always end with the "Placer" being discarded.
A hero would be discarded, yes, unless the battle ends as a stalemate. Depends on the size of the Green hero you place DS on and which placer hero you use (Jehoram is 2/3, Elishama is 6/6, and Agur is 8/9). And if your opponent is using Green, you would probably want to be careful in your choice of Green hero.
Random facts to keep in mind: You don't want to place DS on Sam or Zeke, as they would stop it from activating. Also, DS is protected from removal by Book of the Law (in case they try and Sing and Praise/Ashtaroth Worship it away...).
Random thought... Since Isaiah is so popular in T2... You could activate RBD and place DS on Isaiah, forcing them to discard Isaiah's draw of X.
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Using Nehemiah as the green Hero would most likely keep everyone in battle alive.
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A more reliable, consistent way that my deck uses. They attack, I block with anyone, play Christian Suing Another, their hero fights mine and I play Visions of Iddo the Seer. Darius' Decree active helps, Micah to get back Visions.
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A more reliable, consistent way that my deck uses. They attack, I block with anyone, play Christian Suing Another, their hero fights mine and I play Visions of Iddo the Seer. Darius' Decree active helps, Micah to get back Visions.
Quick question on VoItS: it says "owner's hand", not "owners' hands"; does that make it a "take" ability and you take their hero into hand?
If that is the case (I know it won't be, but it's fun to hold on to the hope that it is), then I'd be making a deck with Unity in Christ, Unified Kingdom, and VoItS to steal all my opponent's heroes.
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A more reliable, consistent way that my deck uses. They attack, I block with anyone, play Christian Suing Another, their hero fights mine and I play Visions of Iddo the Seer. Darius' Decree active helps, Micah to get back Visions.
Quick question on VoItS: it says "owner's hand", not "owners' hands"; does that make it a "take" ability and you take their hero into hand?
If that is the case (I know it won't be, but it's fun to hold on to the hope that it is), then I'd be making a deck with Unity in Christ, Unified Kingdom, and VoItS to steal all my opponent's heroes.
Unlike "opponents'" vs. "opponent's" vs. "opponents", "owner's", "owners'", and "owners" all mean effectively the same thing (though it is true that in this case owner's is gramatically incorrect). Thus, VoItS returns to hand all Heroes to the respective owners' hands.
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You guys better be careful or you're gonna turn Pot of Manna into a T2 staple... ::)
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ah, that would be sweet vindication
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So this combo requires having Book of the Law (for the placing), and a Temple to put it in, and Holy of Holies (to stop FBN), and Rehoboam, and a Placer (3 options here), and Drawn Sword, and Nehemiah (to make sure no one dies), and an opponent that doesn't have anything nasty that they can play on Green? And in case your opponent attacks banded you also have to have King Amon with King Manasseh and Scattered in your discard pile. So all together that requires 2 artifacts, 1 fortress, 5 characters, and 2 enhancements.
This seems much harder to pull off than some of the other infiniblocks like:
1 - Holy of Holies + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon + Gates of Hell
2 - Holy of Holies + Gomer + Scribe + Gib Trick (brown) + Proud Pharisee
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So this combo requires having Book of the Law (for the placing), and a Temple to put it in, and Holy of Holies (to stop FBN), and Rehoboam, and a Placer (3 options here), and Drawn Sword, and Nehemiah (to make sure no one dies), and an opponent that doesn't have anything nasty that they can play on Green? And in case your opponent attacks banded you also have to have King Amon with King Manasseh and Scattered in your discard pile. So all together that requires 2 artifacts, 1 fortress, 5 characters, and 2 enhancements.
This seems much harder to pull off than some of the other infiniblocks like:
1 - Holy of Holies + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon + Gates of Hell
2 - Holy of Holies + Gomer + Scribe + Gib Trick (brown) + Proud Pharisee
The thing with the above combo vs. one of the other ones is there are far more counters to the others. Also, all of the cards in the original combo (except possibly Nehemiah) can integrate well into an already established deck (Solomon's Temple Priests/Kings of Judah).
The following are the counters for your suggested combo 1: Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah w/ Call, Abigail, Temple Priests, Thaddeus (with X>=3), Throne of David, any Hero with less than 7 strength, Covenant with Death, etc.
The following are the counters for your suggested combo 2: Daniel, Isaiah w/ Call, large banding chains, Thaddeus (with X>=3), Ezekiel, Hosea (or any other card that can get rid of Gomer while in territory such as Holy Grail, Meeting the Messiah, Jephthah, Angel of the Lord, etc.), Covenant with Death, etc.
The following are counters for the above combo, assuming everything is optimal (i.e. all the pieces are in place): Thaddeus (with X>=6), Golden Calf, Confusion of Mind, Covenant with Death, something that discards a green Hero (though there can easily be several green Heroes that fit well within a Solomon's Temple deck), A New Beginning, or an opponent's Drawn Sword (which are really the only "nasty" things I can think of that a player can use on a green Hero in a side battle), Pot of Manna.
There are far more well-used counters for the other two combos, which is why they don't see much success. This one would be tricky to pull off for awhile, but that's what many T2 decks (especially combo decks) are: getting the pieces in place for the deck to do what it is designed to do.
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I like the more simpler one, Darius Decree, Christian Suing, Visions of Iddo. You can implement recur tactics, but you still have a great block against anything right there.
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I like the more simpler one, Darius Decree, Christian Suing, Visions of Iddo. You can implement recur tactics, but you still have a great block against anything right there.
I like that too, but we're talking infiniblocks. How you do get the recursion going (sure Micah puts it back in the deck, but how do you draw & play it)? And to have Darius Decree and Holy of Holies both active you'd have to throw in a temple as well.
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Placed cards are read from the perspective of the player who placed them, regardless of who controls the Hero they are on.
Ah, I see. Thanks.
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I like the more simpler one, Darius Decree, Christian Suing, Visions of Iddo. You can implement recur tactics, but you still have a great block against anything right there.
Would you mind humoring me and explaining how that one works?
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I like the more simpler one, Darius Decree, Christian Suing, Visions of Iddo. You can implement recur tactics, but you still have a great block against anything right there.
Would you mind humoring me and explaining how that one works?
You block with crimson dude and play CSA. DD is active. you make the rescuing Hero fight your small, green Hero, and play Visions to return Heroes on both sides (it says all Heroes). Since DD is active and no EC is in the side battle, they can't interrupt it. A T2 deck can have 4 CSAs and 4 Imitating Evil to get them back.
Personally I like Proud Pharisee+Idle Gossip to make them fight Gabriel, who can recur In the Clouds every battle. But side battles+DD in general is going to win you quite a few battles.
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The best way is to use Rehoboam, who cares about CSA because Rehoboam pops regardless of initiatve, then select Joseph and play DS+Stillness (later jubilee to recur stillness). That's probably the best way to infinite unless I missed something.
The following are counters for the above combo, assuming everything is optimal (i.e. all the pieces are in place): Thaddeus (with X>=6), Golden Calf, Confusion of Mind, Covenant with Death, something that discards a green Hero (though there can easily be several green Heroes that fit well within a Solomon's Temple deck), A New Beginning, or an opponent's Drawn Sword (which are really the only "nasty" things I can think of that a player can use on a green Hero in a side battle), Pot of Manna.
You can add Oaked Gideon, Joseph, Simeon (pre SoG), Covenant with Phineas, and Darius' Decree to that list. If you are using the combo I listed above you can remove the artifact counters you listed. Another reason why Micah is probably not as good.
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The best way is to use Rehoboam, who cares about CSA because Rehoboam pops regardless of initiatve, then select Joseph and play DS+Stillness (later jubilee to recur stillness). That's probably the best way to infinite unless I missed something.
DS?
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Drawn Sword--the one card that lets a Hero directly discard another Hero...
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So our current infiniblocks are:
1 - Holy of Holies + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon + Gates of Hell [only works on heroes with numbers 7/4 or greater]
2 - Holy of Holies + Gomer + Scribe + Gib Trick (brown) + Proud Pharisee [more pharisees can be added to increase numbers]
3 - Holy of Holies + Book of the Law + Temple + Rehoboam + Placer Hero + Drawn Sword + Nehemiah [only works on single heroes]
4 - King Amon + King Manasseh (in discard pile) + Scattered [only works on banded heroes]
5 - Holy of Holies + Rehoboam + Joseph + Drawn Sword + Jubilee + Stillness [also only works on single heroes]
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Drawn Sword--the one card that lets a Hero directly discard another Hero [anywhere in the Field of Battle]...
FTFY. Razor could discard a hero in a sidebattle between two heroes.
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It's great to have infini blocks, but I find a simpler quicker method to be most efficient. Rehobaum with Ezekiel, his enhancements, visions of Iddo, CSA and Imitating Evil to stall plenty of time for you to win, in theory that is. My deck now uses search and I use Forest Fire to hit their territory in a side battle, play DS or Visions and get back everything I just played. Now I still have battle winners for next turn and only need to recur a visions. So Ezekiel/Micah are your main heroes. Micah to constantly shuffle Visions and Ezekiel for obvious reasons. ProfU- although Micah does not get it directly back The offense usually has a Search in hand that you can pre block play, play in battle, or side battle Rehobaum to get that visions and use Micah again to get another. There are plenty of counters, but it is a simple way to infiniblock if one would want to.
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ProfU- although Micah does not get it directly back The offense usually has a Search in hand that you can pre block play, play in battle, or side battle Rehobaum to get that visions and use Micah again to get another. There are plenty of counters, but it is a simple way to infiniblock if one would want to.
How do you get initiative to pull this off?
The first part is easy. Block with Rehoboam while Holy of Holies is active to create the side battle.
But the second part is tricky (especially throwing in Forest Fire).
1 - Micah (8/2) + Search (2/1) = 10 attack. How do you play FF & Visions of Iddo?
2 - Ezekiel (7/4) + Search (2/1) = 11 attack. How do you play FF & Drawn Sword?
I assume that you put them in the side battle first (your control), and then put in another hero for your opponent to control who has an attack of at least 3 (for Micah) or 5 (for Ezekiel). But how does Ezekiel survive the side battle if you use DS to target the hero in the main battle? What does Micah do if your opponent interrupts VoI?
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Mark, Darius' Decree is a staple for every T2 deck. If you have that active your opponent cannot play any GE's in the side battle. As long as it's mutual destruction, you have initiative to keep playing.
Tyler is using Visions of Iddo the Seer after his "battle winners" to recur everything.
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Mark, Darius' Decree is a staple for every T2 deck. If you have that active your opponent cannot play any GE's in the side battle. As long as it's mutual destruction, you have initiative to keep playing.
Ah, that was the missing piece. Thanks.
So now our current infiniblocks are:
1 - Holy of Holies + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon + Gates of Hell [only works on heroes with numbers 7/4 or greater]
2 - Holy of Holies + Gomer + Scribe + Gib Trick (brown) + Proud Pharisee [more pharisees can be added to increase numbers]
3 - Holy of Holies + Book of the Law + Temple + Rehoboam + Placer Hero + Drawn Sword + Nehemiah [only works on single heroes]
4 - King Amon + King Manasseh (in discard pile) + Scattered [only works on banded heroes]
5 - Holy of Holies + Rehoboam + Joseph + Drawn Sword + Jubilee + Stillness [also only works on single heroes]
6 - Holy of Holies + Temple + Darius Decree + Rehoboam + Ezekiel + Search + Drawn Sword + Visions of Iddo [single heroes again]
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You do not need HoH and A Temple to for block, that just stops the btn hero, which you could do on your RA so I would not use that, I like to keep the count low. Also Visions says all heroes so it's a block against a band too. Also I give them my Nathan and I use Micah to play whatever I want. Like I said, there are numerous stalls and counters, but the beauty of the Ezekiel cards are that they usually work against them.
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Visions does not return Heroes in the main battle unless we changed the ruling about "in battle" only referring to cards in the side battle. Visions would need to say "Field of Battle" in order to return all the Heroes in the main battle, right?
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Mark, Darius' Decree is a staple for every T2 deck. If you have that active your opponent cannot play any GE's in the side battle. As long as it's mutual destruction, you have initiative to keep playing.
Ah, that was the missing piece. Thanks.
So now our current infiniblocks are:
1 - Holy of Holies + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon + Gates of Hell [only works on heroes with numbers 7/4 or greater]
2 - Holy of Holies + Gomer + Scribe + Gib Trick (brown) + Proud Pharisee [more pharisees can be added to increase numbers]
3 - Holy of Holies + Book of the Law + Temple + Rehoboam + Placer Hero + Drawn Sword + Nehemiah [only works on single heroes]
4 - King Amon + King Manasseh (in discard pile) + Scattered [only works on banded heroes]
5 - Holy of Holies + Rehoboam + Joseph + Drawn Sword + Jubilee + Stillness [also only works on single heroes]
6 - Holy of Holies + Temple + Darius Decree + Rehoboam + Ezekiel + Search + Drawn Sword + Visions of Iddo [single heroes again]
We should have 6 people build these decks and play a double-elimination tourney and see who wins.
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In 5 you don't need hoh because irl you just plot, trick, or infinite scattered everything that is BTN. If you absolutely needed a block you can still use part of the combo since Rehoboam is cbn with his fort and Drawn Sword is CBP.
In 1 you really need crown of thorns and temple or you can't really block much.
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Visions does not return Heroes in the main battle unless we changed the ruling about "in battle" only referring to cards in the side battle. Visions would need to say "Field of Battle" in order to return all the Heroes in the main battle, right?
Correct. I believe DS is for the main battle.
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In 5 you don't need hoh because irl you just plot, trick, or infinite scattered everything that is BTN. If you absolutely needed a block you can still use part of the combo since Rehoboam is cbn with his fort and Drawn Sword is CBP.
In 1 you really need crown of thorns and temple or you can't really block much.
I believe he'd be using the crimson Rehoboam since it would fit better with Babylonians which are required for DS if you're not expecting to have to have one of the 2 copies of Ezekiel in your deck out. It also makes Drawn Sword a lot more useful since you can play it defensively. I agree, HoH isn't entirely necessary because if you have Drawn Sword to begin with you should be okay but you can't use plot or trick.
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I believe he'd be using the crimson Rehoboam since it would fit better with Babylonians which are required for DS if you're not expecting to have to have one of the 2 copies of Ezekiel in your deck out. It also makes Drawn Sword a lot more useful since you can play it defensively. I agree, HoH isn't entirely necessary because if you have Drawn Sword to begin with you should be okay but you can't use plot or trick.
In which case CBP LS x2 (staple anyways...), Invoking Terror x2, Nergalsharezer x a few, and even Asherah Pole/Queen Maachah would all help against FBTN. Plus Queen Maachah banded to Rehoboam is a D2 instead of a D1 when GoJ is in play.
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How is Gates of Jerusalem + Household Idols + King Rehoboam + Gabriel + In the Clouds + Hero 10/10 or high not on the list yet?
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All these theoretical "infiniblock" combos, but yet no one trusted them enough to run at Nationals... :P
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I would have ran crimson green but it was not made yet. I do not trust decks that place a heavy reliance on setting up. And for Visions, I use Christian Suing Another, not Rehobaum for that.
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How is Gates of Jerusalem + Household Idols + King Rehoboam + Gabriel + In the Clouds + Hero 10/10 or high not on the list yet?
+1
As of right now this is the only one that's six cards, includes Gates, and works without having to have another combo to stop multiple heroes. With all the other combos on the list that use Rehoboam you would have to add another card to make him CBN. I think it's easier to set this up because you can use Angelic Guidance to get half the cards, and you can see what counters they might be keeping in their hand as an added bonus.
Also note that using HoH in any of the other Infinite Blocks from the list won't stop cards like Daniel or Isaiah's Call from negating Rehoboam and Amon. It would probably be better if you added Gates of Jerusalem to numbers 3, 5, and 6.
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It would probably be better if you added Gates of Jerusalem to numbers 3, 5, and 6.
The problem is that without HoH, the enhancements won't work in those combos. But you are right that really GoJ should be added to all these combos to deal with heroes like Daniel and "called" Isaiah.
So now our current infiniblocks are:
1 - Holy of Holies + Wandering Spirit + Trembling Demon + Gates of Hell [only works on heroes with numbers 7/4 or greater]
2 - Holy of Holies + Gomer + Scribe + Gib Trick (brown) + Proud Pharisee [more pharisees can be added to increase numbers]
3 - Holy of Holies + Book of the Law + Temple + Rehoboam + Placer Hero + Drawn Sword + Nehemiah [only works on single heroes]
4 - King Amon + King Manasseh (in discard pile) + Scattered [only works on banded heroes]
5 - Holy of Holies + Rehoboam + Joseph + Drawn Sword + Jubilee + Stillness [also only works on single heroes]
6 - Holy of Holies + Temple + Darius Decree + Rehoboam + Ezekiel + Search + Drawn Sword + Visions of Iddo [single heroes again]
7 - Holy of Holies + Temple + Household Idols + King Rehoboam + Gabriel + In the Clouds + Hero 10/10 or higher