Author Topic: Z-Temple - need it strong enough for Natz! <- Updated (again) (Read 9653 times)

New Raven BR · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:45:33 AM »

Quote from: Rrulez4theSA on March 21, 2009, 11:40:03 AM

I actually am inexperienced. But quit putting other people down so much saying things like, "don't try that cuz yur inexpeirienced."

well he isn't ready for advanced decks like TGT or Z temple, i don't think.
i'm sick of everyone tellin me negative things when i'd doing the best i can to help.
only 2 reasons why i'm giving advice
1.he asked
2. i'm being nice.

thestrongangel · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:50:05 AM »

It seems to come across as the "I'm the great player and since you're new you're inexperienced" kind of attitude. Just because you're new, doesnt mean you're a slow learner. If he understands what a "site lockout" deck is he could probably make a pretty decent one. Try not to come across rudely like you often do. Think you could try that?

New Raven BR · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:53:17 AM »

i'm not new, SA.
and i'd rather not answer your question cause even when i try and give advice, my advice gets shot down by others who also give advice, i wish people would get off my back about it

thestrongangel · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:57:03 AM »

When did I say you were new? I didn't. You have been into Redemption for longer than he has, so you automatically switch into "pick-on" mode. "ditch that dek" is rude and un-called for. This is an attitude of yours just keeps me suprised you haven't been banned.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2009, 12:01:53 PM »

Quote from: Rrulez4theSA on March 21, 2009, 11:57:03 AM

When did I say you were new? I didn't. You have been into Redemption for longer than he has, so you automatically switch into "pick-on" mode. "ditch that dek" is rude and un-called for. This is an attitude of yours just keeps me suprised you haven't been banned.

i have been banned once before.
i'm not picking on anybody.
it's just when he said his collection was limited, i couldn't think what to say so i said to him "ditch the deck" but i didn't know he was preparing for a tournament.
gimme a break SA i'm not perfect!

thestrongangel · « **Reply #30 on:** March 21, 2009, 12:04:01 PM »

Nobody is. But at least don't be so rude to new players. K?

Captain Falcon · « **Reply #31 on:** March 21, 2009, 06:35:53 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 21, 2009, 07:08:14 AM

Quote from: TH3 UNF0RG1V4BL3 on March 20, 2009, 07:21:39 PM
Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 20, 2009, 07:45:14 AM
Quote from: TH3 UNF0RG1V4BL3 on March 19, 2009, 11:28:25 PM
17 cards is way too big; i'd say tune it down to 16
...
I mean, cut out one card out of the defense
Well, if 17 cards was way too big, you would want to take out more than just one card.

OMGOSH, TAHT EES SOOOOOO BIG! - *ding* - kk dat better.

In the first post, i meant to say, just to cut out one card. Not that 17 isn't really big, just a little

Mageduckey · « **Reply #32 on:** March 21, 2009, 10:56:18 PM »

Quote from: Rrulez4theSA on March 21, 2009, 11:50:05 AM

It seems to come across as the "I'm the great player and since you're new you're inexperienced" kind of attitude. Just because you're new, doesnt mean you're a slow learner. If he understands what a "site lockout" deck is he could probably make a pretty decent one. Try not to come across rudely like you often do. Think you could try that?

And I did - I had a site lockout deck that almost beat Tim Maly (darn you stupid HT...).

So, should I go with a site lockout defense? Or would that take too many cards?

I don't care whether or not you think I'm "capable" of playing the deck, building, or whatever. All I ask for is simple, POSITIVE advice on iTHE DECK, not on my playing skills.

OH, AND THANK YOU SOOOOOOO MUCH RRULEZ FOR STANDING UP FOR ME.

Oh, and BTW, I'm not new - I've been playing since C/D was new. I just haven't been on the forums that much.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #33 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:00:33 PM »

see if i give anybody deck advice again

lightningninja · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2009, 12:33:59 AM »

Okay, I'll see. I guess yes, cause you always have fits and it doesn't actually mean anything.

You're fine, even if you are inexperienced(which you aren't), Z-temple is fine. You just walk in with invinciple priests and win.

thestrongangel · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2009, 09:54:54 AM »

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on March 21, 2009, 11:00:33 PM

see if i give anybody deck advice again

That's hilarious

Mageduckey · « **Reply #36 on:** March 27, 2009, 05:24:34 PM »

Which card will be better in this deck: Babylonian Forces or Treachery of Jezebel?

I ask because my only other "interrupt" is Swift Horses, and I would like to have one more interrupt card, but I'm only at 6 EC's, and you guys say I should use at least 8. So, which way do I go? Thanks!

MichaelHue · « **Reply #37 on:** March 27, 2009, 05:46:39 PM »

At a glance, my main suggestion would be to remove two Evil Enhancements and add two Evil Characters. I don't have time to give more in-depth advice, but I think that might help. Do you happen to have King Shallum (1/1 Crimson) or Gomer (3/3 band to a male Evil Character)? I would take out Treachery of Jezebel if I were you. Do you have Midianite Attack? I understand that you may have limited access to a lot of cards, but if you have those I would definitely suggest adding them.

Mageduckey · « **Reply #38 on:** March 27, 2009, 05:49:08 PM »

Which ones would you (or anyone with a similar opinion) take out for the new character or two? Swift Horses MUST stay in (for chance to interrupt, and maybe get battle winner in before they can play), and everything else other than ToJ is a battle winner. Thanks for the help!

SoulSaver · « **Reply #39 on:** March 27, 2009, 08:38:08 PM »

Okay, I know you won't like my opinion about your deck, but I'm going to give it to you straight. It's got way too many enhancements and not enough characters. I think you're going to lose a few games because of this problem, it will effect your draws and will limit you during your games. Take out a few enhancements and add a few characters, and I don't think it would be a bad thing for you to add some stand alones like The Strong Angel etc...

Mageduckey · « **Reply #40 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:09:54 PM »

Okay, so I've added CotH (instead of TSA 'cus my dad is using him), have switched out a few cards to have some more battle winners/characters. Please critique my updated deck, as I wuold like to have it be the best it can be. Thanks!

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #41 on:** April 02, 2009, 07:22:17 PM »

3 Z's Temple guys isn't enough IMO. though, you do have Ahimaaz and Chariot...

Gabe · « **Reply #42 on:** April 02, 2009, 07:24:55 PM »

Quote from: MichaelHue on March 27, 2009, 05:46:39 PM

At a glance, my main suggestion would be to remove two Evil Enhancements and add two Evil Characters.

Quote from: SoulSaver on March 27, 2009, 08:38:08 PM

Okay, I know you won't like my opinion about your deck, but I'm going to give it to you straight. It's got way too many enhancements and not enough characters.

Quote from: BrianGabe on March 20, 2009, 08:33:32 AM

I agree with TH3 UNF0RG1V4BL3 that your evil character/enhancement ratio is off. His suggestion of 9 characters and 7 or 8 enhancements is a good one. At least use 8 evil characters minimum.

A teal offense needs to have the Wanderer LS. Teal doesn't have much access to the female or NT LS so the exchange will help you make additional rescues.

Joshua the High Priest is one of the best teal characters. If you don't have one you should to try to get one. He's a relatively inexpensive rare.

You keep asking for advice but you're ignoring some of the best advice that's been given to you.
You still have too few characters (only 6 Heroes, 7 ECs) and too many (10) evil enhancements.

If you're serious about making this competative at the National level add Joshua the High Priest and the Wanderer Lost Soul. They're both crucial to this offense. If you don't have them, get them. They're both fairly inexpensive.

Lampstand of the Sanctuary and Priests of Christ are other cards that would go nicely with your deck but if you don't have them they aren't cheap.

Here are some things you can do to fine tune your deck a little:

Take out Shuffler LS - Add Wanderer LS

Take out Anti-Angel LS - Add NT Only LS
Take out Renewing the Covenant - Add Joshua the High Priest

Take out Ahimaaz - Add Priests of Christ (if you have/can get one)
Take out Melchizedek's Blessing - Add Jehoiada's Strength
Take out three evil Enhancements - Add King Merodach-baladan (can play Carried Into Exile when he enters battle), Lampstand of the Sanctuary, Hopper LS

I don't see CotH anywhere on your deck list. He doesn't fit with what your doing and would be used against you too often so I wouldn't put it in this deck anyway.

Mageduckey · « **Reply #43 on:** April 02, 2009, 07:45:25 PM »

So sorry - I've had CotH, Joshua the HP, and Wanderer in there. For some reason I missed them. Anyways, I guess the reason WHY I keep asking for more "advice" is that you guys kept saying to take out EE's and add Characters, but I didn't know what should go out and what should go in. Sorry about the confusion.

Concerning your last post Brian:

-I've already taken out the immunity LS for the Wanderer, as immunity to blue off of ONE site wasn't going to be beneficial at all (imo).
-I don't have the NT-Only LS. Any ideas where I can get it cheap?
-Sorry, I already have Joshua the HP in the deck. One of the slip-ups. Sorry about that.
-I don't have and can't get PoC (too much for my budget right now).
-I will switch Mel's Blessing w/JS, though I would like to know why.
-I don't have and can't really obtain LotS (probably will be too much). Is it a necessary card for a Z-Temple deck? Also, what EE's should I take out, since most of them are battle winners. Thanks in advance for this continued advice.
-Instead of CotH, should I put in TSA? Moses?

Thanks for this advice (all of it). Sorry about any confusion. Thanks, and have a nice day!

*EDIT* Okay, I've taken out Apprehended and put in King Merodach-Baladan, but I can't figure out which EE to take out for the hopper.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #44 on:** April 02, 2009, 11:37:03 PM »

(call him Gabe)

Gabe · « **Reply #45 on:** April 03, 2009, 11:05:05 AM »

A lot of people call me Brian. Friends and family call me Gabe. I don't mind either one.

Quote from: Mageduckey on April 02, 2009, 07:45:25 PM

-I don't have the NT-Only LS. Any ideas where I can get it cheap?

Three Lions Games has them for $2 which is a steal in my opinion. I include the NT LS in almost every deck I use - it's that good.

Quote from: Mageduckey on April 02, 2009, 07:45:25 PM

-I will switch Mel's Blessing w/JS, though I would like to know why.

Fair question.

Mel's Blessing doesn't impact the current battle. There are also better ways to protect your priests from discard - Cov w/ Phin (which you already have) and Altar of Incense. If you want card drawing, teal has better ways to do that too (Pentecost, First Fruits, Feast of Trumpets).

J's Stength not only has excellent numbers to help in a FBTN battle but it creates and "interrupt + win" scenerio for you when used properly. Not only do you get to band all your Heroes into battle but you get to borrowyour opponent's Heroes as well. I find that most of the time an opponent can't (or doesn't want to) kill all their Heroes to stop you from making a rescue. There's an added bonus if you play it on Josh, tHP and band in a FBTN character. I always forget that it grants immunity to brown but that comes up occasionally too.

Quote from: Mageduckey on April 02, 2009, 07:45:25 PM

-I don't have and can't really obtain LotS (probably will be too much). Is it a necessary card for a Z-Temple deck?

It's extremely helpful, especially considering that you're already not using 2 of the evil Dominants it protects against. I can attest that when facing an opponent that used LotS it was very annoying to me not to be able to use my Dominants. I've lost more than one game in the past couple years because my opponent had it.

One concern I have about your deck is that it doesn't take advantage of the ability to have a second Artifact active in Z's Temple. LotS and Book of the Covenant (since you have 2 Covs) are my two top choices, but they aren't cheap if you don't have them. Other top choices would be Altar of Incense, Holy of Holies and The Silver Trumpets. I don't know that any of the last three would help you deck very much though. The first two certainly would if you had them.

To answer your question, are they necessary? I can't say for sure because I've never tried Z's Temple without them.

The deck would certainly be better with them.

Quote from: Mageduckey on April 02, 2009, 07:45:25 PM

Also, what EE's should I take out, since most of them are battle winners?

As you mentioned, they're all battle winners and all good in their own respect. The best answer to this question is to play your deck against a variety of opponents and see which ones are the least useful to you. There's no substitute for actual playtesting.

If you want my abstract opinion, I would take out Isaac Deceived and Deceit of Sapphira. Isaac Deceived only stops the Hero for one battle unlike some of your other battle winners that remove them permanently. Deceit of Sapphira works best on Sapphira (which you don't have and I'm not suggesting you add her). Plus you're already discarding one of your own guys with Belshazzar's Banquet. You don't want to help your opponent too much by killing your defenders.

Quote from: Mageduckey on April 02, 2009, 07:45:25 PM

-Instead of CotH, should I put in TSA? Moses?

If I were to use any of the three (which I probably wouldn't) it would be TSA simply because he FTBN and NT (which your offense lacks). Another choice that would keep you with 2 brigades is Benaiah (warriors). If it was me I'd stick with the straight teal offense, including Haggai (he want to be teal).

Quote from: Mageduckey on April 02, 2009, 07:45:25 PM

I've taken out Apprehended and put in King Merodach-Baladan, but I can't figure out which EE to take out for the hopper?

Good choice. Apprehended was your weakest enhancement.

See the two EEs I mentioned above or Renewing the Covenant for what to take out for the Hopper LS.

Some other changes to consider:

You shouldn't have removed Eliashib. You might be able to get by with 7 Heroes if you have a strong defense (which it's shaping up that you do). I'd remove either CotH or Renewing the Covenant to get him back in your deck.

Take out Treachery of Jezebel to add Midianite Attack. Better numbers, better negate ability.

Nebuchadnezzar's Pride from RoA is a great enhancement for a Babylonian defense. If you have (or can get) one it deserves strong consideration.

Your deck is shaping up very nicely! Have you had a chance to play it much? How's it doing?

lightningninja · « **Reply #46 on:** April 03, 2009, 04:00:48 PM »

Put in Moses for coth. Banding him in with jehoida's strength will just about always win the battle.

Also, put in ram's horn. That will add even more deadly effect to jehoida's strength, as well as make all of your battle winners cannot be interrupted. It's an amazing card and typically overooked.

Mageduckey · « **Reply #47 on:** April 07, 2009, 12:36:58 AM »

I might be able to get NT-Only LS from 3LG - will have to look into it, as paying $2 shipping for $2 worth of cards seems a waste to me.

- Thanks for answering the question. It makes sense now (

).
- I'm still not sure if I can get BotC or LotS, but I can add Altar of Incense. Should I switch out Cov. w/Phin. for AoI?
- I'm somewhat "cornfuzzled": Do I still need to take out EE(s)? If so, for what cards?
- Moses has been changed with CotH. Sorry, but I like the idea of having a FBTN character (I'm not sure if I have Ben(w), as I'm on a trip and don't have my cards - if I do, should I use him instead of Moses? Why?)
- Why shouldn't I have taken out Eliashib? If I remember correctly, he can use GEs from any brigade (if Z-Temple is in play) - but I don't have any. So why should he be in there?
- I'll switch ToJ for Mid. Attack. I would like to say, though, that ToJ allows me to A) play their battle winner to my advantage (against their character(s)), and B) doesn't make it BTN, so I don't have to lose my character (or waste any battle winners). But that can also backfire on me (since it ISN'T BTN). Oh well - ToJ OUT, MA IN.
- Sorry, but I can't really get my hands on any RoA cards at the time. I wish I could, though, because most of them look pretty awesome.

I haven't really had a chance to play the deck against someone, since I don't have anyone other than my dad to play against most of the time (except for Wildcard meetings), and I can't get RTS working (Lambo hasn't emailed me the updated and installed program yet). I've played it previously (before the updates/changes just made), and it didn't do too bad, so I'm guessing that it will do better. I'm hoping that I can get the RTS package from Lambo soon so I can start testing out my deck(s). Thanks for the help!

------------
What should I take out for Ram's Horn, though?

New Raven BR · « **Reply #48 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:49:53 PM »

could you try and shorten your defense? cause there doesn't seem to be enough teal.
and moses alone won't be enough to stop your opponent's cbn owners which can or will be a problem

SoulSaver · « **Reply #49 on:** April 08, 2009, 11:15:19 PM »

I think if you want to compete try to play something like this. What you have right now is alright if you're just messing around at a local, but at natz you'll just stay on the southside with Maley if you play with the deck you have right now.

Total cards:50

Lost Souls: 8
Hopper
Revealer
Site Doubler
Site Discard
Wanderer
Shuffler
Anti-Angel
Female Only

Dominants:9
SoG
NJ
HT
Guardian
Destruction
Burial
CM
AotL

Fortresses: 1
Z-Temple

Sites: 1
Hormah

Artifact:3
Holy Grail
Priestly Crown
Lampstand of the Sanctuary

Curses:1
Captured Ark

Covenants: 2
Cov. with Phinehas
Cov. with Levi

Multi-Enh:2
Lying Unto God
Dance of Death

Silver Hero:1
TSA (WA)

Blue Hero:1
Trible Elder

Green Hero:1
Haggai

Teal Heroes: 6
Joshua the HP
Joiakim, Son of Joshua
Phniehas, Son of Eleazar
Joiada, Son of Eliashib
Priest of Christ

Teal Enh:6
Feast of Trumpets
Pentecost
First Fruits
(the red teal set aside)
Zeal for the Lord
Jehoiada's Strength

Crimson EC:5
King Zimri
Arioch
Red Dragon
Judas
Sapphira

Crimson EE:1
Mid Attack

Brown EC:1
Uzzah

Gold EC:1
KoT

News:

Author Topic: Z-Temple - need it strong enough for Natz! <- Updated (again) (Read 9653 times)

thestrongangel

thestrongangel

thestrongangel

thestrongangel

SoulSaver

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

SoulSaver