Author Topic: T1 defenses  (Read 1574 times)

Offline Mr.Hiatus

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T1 defenses
« on: June 06, 2019, 07:15:14 PM »
+1
So I think this set was amazing. A lot of Babylonians running amok as well as demons/magicians. Here are two of my favorite defensive builds that do not include Babs.

Damsel
The False Prophet (crimson/orange UR)
Babylon The Harlot
Frog Demons
Kings of the Earth (reserve)
KoT (PoC)
Abaddon
Messenger of Satan
The Fallen Star
Red Dragon

Wages of Sin
Did God Really Say
Blasphemies
Scattered
Fire From Heaven
War in Heaven
Deafening Spirit

Sheol
Gates of Hell

Unholy Writ
Magic Charms

This deck has some amazing bands, a lot of extend the battles, obviously negate heavy due to the bands/characters, and can block with Writ and Magic Charms as well. Getting past a KoT can be tough, getting past The Fallen Star can be tough, getting past Red Dragon can be tough, getting past a big demon band can be tough, now get through all that with negates, adding a magician to battle, having Writ and Magic Charms, and none of this includes dominants. Pretty solid defense if I do say so myself. If you play Job and angels, or just angels, Dragon's Wrath in reserve, Dragon's Minions main deck, additional curses in reserve, Worshipping Demons, all sorts of good stuff, but I left out the reserve, just included the main portion.


My favorite defense in type 1 this year so far.

Outsiders
Priest of Zeus
Demetrius
The Chief Priests
High Priest Ananias
Goliath
KoT
Gib Delegates
Lot's Wife

Wages of Sin
Seized by Rioters
Plot to Kill
Abandonment
Mourn and Weep
Scattered Sheep
Stricked

Sheol

Caanan

Reserve has Wages of Sin stuff
Doomed Conspirators
Fortify Site


This defense focuses on territory destruction. Priest of Zeus and Doomed Conspirators is brutal. Doomed takes out their territory and when they draw I choose another hero. Caanan is used to snipe another pesky hero, I use Remnant lost soul in the deck as well. This is the defense I was talking about in my cheese chump post. I love using this defense instead of my stop rescue defense because this hurts the meta, hurts heroes, hurts drawing, and has some decent star/reserve access. High Priest Ananias absolutely wrecks the new Prophets and The Chief Priests can snag him and draw and HPA also hurts CoW Moses decks which also saw a resurgence in this set, thanks Daniel heroes and Brian Jones. Fortify Site can be snagged with Wages and I can capture two heroes, Sheol can underdeck Remnant and I can snipe a different hero if I am having issues there. Dominants, Caanan x2, Remnant, Doomed Conspirators and Priest of Zeus really limits their options. Just using what was listed I can temporarily or remove (counting Doomed Conspirators for one and PoZ for one) I can take 7 heroes (CM, FA, Caanan x2 due to Fortify Site, Remnant, PoZ and Doomed). I also like the lost soul that snags a site from discard so i can do Caanan x3 with more Caananites in the reserve. Doomed Consiprators and KoT should be in just about every deck. KoT is a beast by himself, but giving the opponent Doomed Conspirators also stops Babs and a lot of unity defenses (Sheol aka everyone). DC in their territory, PoZ out, and High Priest Ananias really helps me without me having to do anything. Hope you enjoy this defense, I expect it to be popular this season once people realize the tricks black has.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2019, 07:19:37 PM »
+1
I don't think Doomed Conspirators breaks an opponents unity.

Unity only looks at cards you own and control
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2019, 07:20:44 PM »
+1
Unity is "own and control" so giving someone a Doomed Conspirators would not disrupt their Sheol (or other Unity).

I've got a deck with that first defense (actually a bit larger version), and it's crazy tough to break through. Adding Coliseum to ensure no CBN battle winners is also an option.
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Offline Reth

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2019, 07:31:32 PM »
+1
Are you really sure you mean "Doomed Conspirators" - or do you mean "Doomed Canaanites"?

Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2019, 07:45:12 PM »
0
Thanks for the Unity ruling, I would rather know now than later! But yeah, that orange is strong and Coliseum can go in easily. Justin, my version is also bigger for the deck I am running, this is my slimfast version, I think a slightly larger build with a few more demons and Coliseum is extremely tough to get through. I might mean Doomed Canaanites, whoever discards one in their territory.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2019, 08:18:27 PM »
0
Also note that Canaan (purple Site) doesn’t work as historically understood. Give defaults to the opponents hand, not territory. I’m guessing that doesn’t get the result you desire.

P.S. I always enjoy seeing these ideas from Tyler!  8)
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2019, 09:49:25 PM »
+1
Thanks Elders for ruining my hopes and dreams one comment at a time. lol. It does not give me the result I was fully going for, but Canaan does still capture a hero, so that works.
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Offline Reth

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2019, 01:55:57 AM »
0
ATM I am also fooling around with a similar deck idea ...  :D

Offline Josh

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2019, 08:15:15 AM »
0
I love that Orange defense that uses both Gates of Hell and Sheol.  I've theorized, but not built, a similar one. 

Mine would definitely play Foreign Wives.  Plays all your EEs, usually 1 autoblock per game, gives you another human for Sheol?  Yes please.

And as for your second defense, I'm going to be unoriginal and suggest you add Foreign Wives.  And then since you have 2 female Canaanites, Stone of Thebez  ;)

Thanks for posting these, will definitely make it easier to build these defenses.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 08:27:34 AM »
0
The orange defense also lacks “the best EC in the game” - Pagan Sailors! I imagine he’s in the more robust version or possibly the Reserve. Having 2 more multi ECs (counting FW from above) gets you 2 more ways to use an opponent’s defense with Sheol.
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 09:13:02 AM »
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Both are great comments and I considered them but wasn’t sure about adding that many brigades but you guys brought up great points so I will add both. That’s why I posted these! I like the foreign Wives as an auto block plus Stone but depends if Coliseum makes the cut too, I usually don’t use it in my black defense though. Pagan plus fW is nice and adds versatility plus more Sheol options. I do see that Sheol doesn’t make it too long but having two more flexible ECs plus potential blocks is good. Thanks everyone.
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Offline thecoolguy

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 11:06:00 AM »
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Yes I was thing the same thing . Please let the name pagan sailors go down in history as the best EC in the game
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Offline Master Q

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2019, 11:23:05 AM »
0
All of these are assuming KoT works without Judean Mediums, which is just not true 85% of the time (in my experience). But that black defense does look tough on paper. You can go big or small and stop bands forever as long as they don't have Coliseum. This is of course assuming your hand isn't too clogged that you won't be able to rescue when you need to, but I'd probably run FW and Mayhem in something like that to reset the hand if you have too much evil.

Somewhat unrelated, but I really despise Mourn & Weep and how you're basically forced to run it. Yeah, a non-responsive card that's basically FA, can discard a good card with its * ability, and playable in 100% of defenses. Thanks, I hate it. :P
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Offline thecoolguy

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2019, 11:44:28 AM »
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Well you could throw judean medium in the reserve and a deciver  in deck
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2019, 12:19:38 PM »
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I’m not gonna disagree with your statistic but I do think 85% not working is extremely high. The only card that’s reliant on him is Doomed Conspirators, everything else works as advertised. I agree with you on Mourn and Weep but there are so many TC negates now it’s not unstoppable.
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Offline Master Q

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2019, 05:46:05 PM »
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75%, but I won't go lower until I actually see it work. ;)

Saying M&W has counters does not justify its existence. It's not something like HSR in that, despite its unhealthy power level, has a plethora of counters available to all decks.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2019, 06:18:12 PM »
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75%, but I won't go lower until I actually see it work. ;)

Saying M&W has counters does not justify its existence. It's not something like HSR in that, despite its unhealthy power level, has a plethora of counters available to all decks.

KoT without Judean Mediums is very similar to Babylonian Siege Army, or Nebby+Betrayal. Far, Far better with CM, FA, Writ, or Charms as backup.
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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2019, 10:55:24 AM »
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75%, but I won't go lower until I actually see it work. ;)

Saying M&W has counters does not justify its existence. It's not something like HSR in that, despite its unhealthy power level, has a plethora of counters available to all decks.

KoT without Judean Mediums is very similar to Babylonian Siege Army, or Nebby+Betrayal. Far, Far better with CM, FA, Writ, or Charms as backup.

Do you think Writ could see a comeback as a staple?

Offline Gabe

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2019, 11:13:23 AM »
+1
Do you think Writ could see a comeback as a staple?

A staple? No. But it could certainly see more play than it has in recent years. Cards like Pagan Sailors (or others that can activate it from Reserve/Art Pile) and Valley of Dry Bones give it more value.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2019, 11:16:29 AM »
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75%, but I won't go lower until I actually see it work. ;)

Saying M&W has counters does not justify its existence. It's not something like HSR in that, despite its unhealthy power level, has a plethora of counters available to all decks.

KoT without Judean Mediums is very similar to Babylonian Siege Army, or Nebby+Betrayal. Far, Far better with CM, FA, Writ, or Charms as backup.

Do you think Writ could see a comeback as a staple?

No. Artifact slot is more valuable than ever. The "staple" arts crowd out any others that aren't deck critical. A priest deck can play U&T, a Prophet deck Hidden Treasures, but neither probably has room for that, BotC/Endless Treasures, Hezekiahs Ring, and another art pile Writ
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Offline 777Godspeed

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2019, 12:55:24 PM »
+1
75%, but I won't go lower until I actually see it work. ;)

Saying M&W has counters does not justify its existence. It's not something like HSR in that, despite its unhealthy power level, has a plethora of counters available to all decks.

KoT without Judean Mediums is very similar to Babylonian Siege Army, or Nebby+Betrayal. Far, Far better with CM, FA, Writ, or Charms as backup.

When running a Deceiver, Judean Mediums, KoT package I find myself torn between slotting a PoC KoT vs. a Pr KoT... grabbing a Doomed Canaanites and stuffing it into opponents territory is fun, but also a surprise 14/16 CbN FbtN can be.... well surprising.... am I the only one who waffles back an forth on this one?

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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2019, 07:49:10 AM »
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Mike I don’t think you’re the only ones, Justin just posted his Red Spread and was torn between which Captain to use. I personally like the idea of being able to put DC in their territory and drawing or even having the option to take DC as a character if needed next turn, but you can’t argue a 14/16 btn. If I play this deck for a while and Master Q’s stat is right about KoT rarely working, I just might go back to the other one.
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Offline 777Godspeed

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2019, 09:33:38 AM »
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I have found if it isn't pulled from hand, reserve or a combo of both, the success rate goes down as it tends to be a big target if a piece is in territory.


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Offline The Guardian

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2019, 09:44:05 AM »
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For me it depends on what other defense I'm using. For example, if I also have Red Dragon in the deck, then I might opt for the Priests KoT as that gives me one "protected" option and one "FBTN" option. If I'm running a fair number of orange (or black) enhancements then I would likely opt for the PoC KoT.
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2019, 08:41:32 PM »
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I've been playing the PoC KoT pretty much since it came out and I think 85% is about right. That being said, it might just seem like that because I only block with him sans Judean Mediums when I have no other options or I know what my opponent has.
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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2019, 09:56:22 PM »
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I think there is just too much cbp and cbn to justify fbtn captain or KoT. If your opponent can't block you why attack with a no special ability hero?

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: T1 defenses
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2019, 05:30:32 PM »
+2
I think there is just too much cbp and cbn to justify fbtn captain or KoT. If your opponent can't block you why attack with a no special ability hero?

It's been quite a few years since I regularly got blocks with FBTN ECs like KoT. The real "blocks" KoT always gets for me are the turns that the opponent sees I have it in play, doesn't happen to have a CBN/P battle winner, and passes without attacking. These days though I agree with Hobbit that there's just so much CBN/P going around that the number of turns an opponent will have zero answers for a plain FBTN character is pretty low.